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#95362 - 09/24/15 02:10 PM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
Owl's_Warder Offline
Desperado

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 894
Loc: Grants Pass, OR
Originally Posted By: 975 destroyer
Can't recall if the unused APC 750 at work has that feature - I want to guinea pig w/it though I think the battery is overdo for replacement.


I recently replaced the batteries in my APC UPS. After much looking around, I found the best price (by far) for what I needed at Battery Sharks. They were quick, affordable, pleasant to deal with, and had an extended Memorial Day weekend sale going on so I got an even better price than I thought. If I recall correctly, they ended up being in the neighborhood of 50% lower than what I was finding most other places.

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#95367 - 09/28/15 12:59 AM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: XenonMan]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
I wish to extend a heartfelt thanks across the miles of cyberspace for you taking time from your life to help me w/mine.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
I believe you may have made your system too complicated.
No regrets during my 2 channel days. This just an extra channel by comparison. I'll be the first to admit "it ain't easy..."
1. cabling is a BUNCH of work, making sure the correct XO output is connected to the correct channel to its respective driver can make a migraine* seem less painful
2. verifying correct bandwidth output from each driver a little easier
3. the initial XO adjustments, while less physically stressful than 1&2, are harder for those who adjust for ego instead of SQ.
...but I can't recall ever being sorry once I retire that screw driver

BTW I suffer from headaches that are believed WORSE - Cluster AKA ice pick or suicide headaches. Ice pick comes from feeling in your head; suicide comes from self-induced fatality rate. But let's return to this problem giving more than just me a brain banger.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
...but providing separate amps for each driver in your system...
Well I have the amps & XOs so... ...why not? As convoluted as it may seem, the overwhelming weak link(s) in my current setup are the passive XOs. I doubt Polk spent more than $3 maybe $4 in each of my Left-Center-Right speakers. To upgrade to resisters & caps that sound transparent, that is, they don't impart any sonic signature, would run well north of $100 per speaker easy. As crazy as it "sounds," electric $ aside, it's actually le$$.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
...seems a bit self defeating.
Please rephrase - I don't follow.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
I agree with EEMAN that you should seek a second circuit to split the load.
Working on just that for the low draw equipment when I'm not working at my second full time job, unpaid of course, the stuff my family messes up that ONLY Dad can fix.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
Adding power conditioners is also adding load to the circuit as they are not passive devices and do use some power.
Thank you! You're the first to point that out.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
The fact that the 975 survived for three weeks in a circuit that had a bad neutral is just happenstance...
I'll go along w/happenstance but NOT...
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
...good design by Outlaw.
...not by a long shot especially when you factor in the upgraded power feed, its the ONLY component failure in my system. BTW it was the house neutral.
Originally Posted By: XenonMan
Outlaw can tell you what the failure* was in the 975 from when they did the repair. It might narrow down the possible reasons for the failure.
I hope you're right about your last point. This time I'm including a letter requesting just that*.

I ask anyone watching and reading to see how this plays out, PLEASE be patient w/what I have in front of me. I'm the dad of more than most. Not just the number of children none of whom we birthed, but more than half w/special needs due to either their history prior to becoming mine, they were born that way, or in several cases, both. Making time for a passion that they enjoy fruit almost as much as I is tough.

Tony

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#95368 - 09/28/15 02:00 AM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: Stephen B]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
Originally Posted By: Stephen B
I would still like to know what was happening right at power on, is everything still powering on at the same time?
In the voltage department I still can't tell you exactly what's up and I don't plan to $pend any more on that. Instead:
1. run yet another line daisy chained from another circuit for low draw equipment.
2. add WHATEVER paying particular attention to isolating the 975 from everything else.
3. Instant turn on for sub & one amp
4. for the others use the Furman Miniport 20 delay feature. ~ 3 seconds & 3 seconds should do it.
Originally Posted By: Stephen B
I looked at the Monster site for your surge suppressor. The literature says it should protect from transients from outside sources but says nothing of anything unpleasant that might be created by something plugged into the strip itself.
i hope what you read above will protect etc and give us no more to write in this thread

Originally Posted By: Stephen B
How much current does a class A/B amplifier pull just sitting turned on with no input signal applied?
At idle the answer varies some upon amp bias though in most cases it isn't much. How close is it biased to "Class A?" You could turn it up that far, though without backing WAY off on the rail voltage or running it in a closed freezer w/a fan you'd see smoke soon! The Rotel & Belles run cool at idle, barely warm at extended high volume. A side note: the Belles is a bit load dependent on that issue - not crazy about lower impedances unless it's on a milk crate. The Haflers' bias settings are higher.

Originally Posted By: Stephen B
Looking around at the DIY sites one of the first upgrades to signal path components is the power supply. I would like to get one of your kills for a bit of fun time and experimentation. Better power supply and film cap/resistor upgrades in the signal path might yield something pretty cool.
I have to complete
A. several honey do items
B. the next phase for the reason for this thread
C. and the tri-amping
After the above, as backup I will build a regulated old-school PS for the 975 w/a few filtering enhancements because if it's factory PS poops again it's not worth repairing.

Tony

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#95369 - 09/28/15 02:03 AM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: Owl's_Warder]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
Originally Posted By: Owl's_Warder
I recently replaced the batteries in my APC UPS. After much looking around, I found the best price (by far) for what I needed at Battery Sharks. They were quick, affordable, pleasant to deal with, and had an extended Memorial Day weekend sale going on so I got an even better price than I thought. If I recall correctly, they ended up being in the neighborhood of 50% lower than what I was finding most other places.

Thanks for the tip, Tony


Edited by 975 destroyer (09/28/15 02:03 AM)

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#95370 - 09/28/15 08:00 PM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
APC H10 line conditioner! Can regulate to a voltage range of 114 to 126. Is this safe?
_________________________
Samsung 60" LED
Outlaw Audio 976
Samsung BD player, Phillips CD chgr, Dish DVR, Firestick

Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
BJC 10 ga - LCR mids*, inside & out
8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

LR: Tri-amped Polk RTi A7
Rotel RB980s -> woofers; Rotel RB981s -> mids w/phase plugs & tweeters
CC: bi-amped Polk CSi A6 -> Rotel RB981
SWs: Sunfire & 4 Audio Pros - LFE True Sig; 4 Evidence - 1 @ ea corner
Surrounds: Rotel RB981 -> Polk RTi A3
Power Conditioning & Distribution:
3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman MP-20s

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#95371 - 09/28/15 08:33 PM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
I use the APC H15 for my systems and it is excellent. When it senses a voltage sag beyond its range it shutsdown all the equipment and when voltage returns it starts back ups. Very good for lightning areas.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#95372 - 09/29/15 12:00 PM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
One of the great things about the APC H15 is the voltage and power draw indications on the front panel. You can turn on your equipment one at a time ad see what is happening to the voltage and how much power each piece of gear draws at idle..
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

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#95373 - 10/02/15 12:17 AM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
Xman: do you if the APC H10/15 isolate each device from the others? If yes then an H10 or H15 should protect my low draw* from each other & everything else.
* including 975


Edited by 975 destroyer (10/02/15 12:20 AM)

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#95374 - 10/02/15 10:39 PM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
XenonMan Offline
Desperado

Registered: 04/08/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: Columbus,North Carolina
The back of the H15 has separate sections for the various components connected to it. For instance, the Amp/Subwoofer section is separate from the AVR/Preamp section. Each section is optimized for the type of component you have plugged in. The top row of receptacles is best for digital gear as it is the most sensitive to voltage fluctuations while the Amp/Sub section is set up with a high current filter. As far as it goes they are separated by various filter circuits but they all get power from the same source.
_________________________
Music system
Model 990/7500/Magnepan 1.6 QRs/Technics SL1200 MK2/Aperion S-12 Subwoofer/OWA3/Sony NS75H DVD
APC H15 Power Conditioner

TV System
Large Advent Loudspeakers/ Polk center/Monoprice surrounds/Panasonic Viera 42 inch/Onkyo HT-RC260/Sony BDP S590/Directv


Home Theater System
Onkyo PR-SC886/Outlaw 7125 Klipsch RF-82 L/R,RC-62 center, RB-35 SR/SL, BENQ HT1075, Outlaw LFM1-EX/OPPO BDP-83/Directv
Harmony ONE
Blue Jeans and Monoprice interconnects
APC H15 Power Conditioner

Top
#95375 - 10/04/15 02:32 AM Re: Line conditioner that handles voltage sags well [Re: 975 destroyer]
975 destroyer Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/07/15
Posts: 129
Loc: Georgia, US of A!
I've located, though not purchased yet, a used APC H10 at a substantial $avings compared to new.

XenonMan: I've seen the pics & read great tech reviews. Further on another forum read the "15" is a 1.5 KWatt version of the "10" save for a read out on the front panel.

But I haven't verified if this device or any other make/model would isolate the 975 from my other low draw equipment w/out spending a large car payment. I suppose I could use the Digital section for the 975 alone, the high current section for the Xbox, everything else into another may take care of biz. I'm SO desperate that this go-around w/Repair be the last. I bought it early May - four months now. It's spent more time either at Repair or in its shipping box than connected, much less enjoyed.

I won't rule out building a back-up old school PS either from scratch or parts from a 900 series Rotel SSP. Their 900 & 1000 series SSPs come w/independent regulated PSs for each voltage required - I'm confident I'll need just a project box of sorts for housing the same.

Many thanks for your help, Tony
_________________________
Samsung 60" LED
Outlaw Audio 976
Samsung BD player, Phillips CD chgr, Dish DVR, Firestick

Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside; CC outside
BJC 10 ga - LCR mids*, inside & out
8 ga Powerline - LR woofers, inside & out

LR: Tri-amped Polk RTi A7
Rotel RB980s -> woofers; Rotel RB981s -> mids w/phase plugs & tweeters
CC: bi-amped Polk CSi A6 -> Rotel RB981
SWs: Sunfire & 4 Audio Pros - LFE True Sig; 4 Evidence - 1 @ ea corner
Surrounds: Rotel RB981 -> Polk RTi A3
Power Conditioning & Distribution:
3 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 4 Furman MP-20s

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