Hi Sweet Spot and all, I just got around to reading the thread on Maggies' power needs, or alleged needs. My Outlaw 990 (of course) drives a two-generation-old Adcom GFA535, spec'd at 100 wpc into 4 ohms, via a Yaqin tube buffer (very highly recommended), so my 1.6QR's are underpowered by from 3 to 6 dbw according to the folks in that thread. I'm not saying they're mistaken, but living in a condo as I do I rarely turn the 990 up past the -10db volume setting on CDs and the system sounds very, very good to me.
I think it would take something like the clang and thunderclap in the old London "Das Rheingold" to light the Adcom's distortion lights, and I'd better wait until my wife's out before trying it.

Sweet Spot,

I have also looked at the thread you provided and included a link for you to read from the Magnepan Users Group Forum on recommended power ratings for the different Magnepan speakers. Your receiver should not have a problem driving a set of MMGs or MG12s. As you can see from my signature, I am running two pairs of Magnepan IIIa speakers using a 5-channel Parasound amp rated at 140watts @8ohms and 200watts @4ohms. It is more than enough for me and my family in our dedicated home theater room in our house. Here's the link to the MUG Forum recommendations for each Magnepan ever made: http://www.integracoustics.com/MUG/MUG/articles/speakers.html

Slbenz

Thanks for the link, Silbenz, but I am puzzled that the Magnepan Users Group would be referring to recommended amplifier output at 8 ohms, when all the Maggies I know about are 4-ohm speakers. It's NOT safe to assume that because an amp has "sufficient" power at 8 ohms it will work well at 4; good ones (including all Outlaw stuff) will but many integrated amps and receivers will just overheat. Never try to use an amp whose specs don't list a 4-ohm power figure with a 4-ohm speaker.
So I'm afraid I don't trust the MUG table on this point.

Psyprof1,

I couldn't agree with you more. Never understood why the MUG forum have the recommendations in 8ohms but most, if not all the reviews I have seen on different Magnepan speakers seem to do the same thing for power recommendations. But since we are talking about Outlaw products, none of them should have difficulty driving Magnepans. Especially the MMG or MG12 models. Also, when you see some of those discussions about power, it is amazing to see people use 600watt/channel amps to power their Maggies to their fullest. At those levels, I would expect bass slap to occur. Used to do that when I owned a set of Eminent Technology LFT-IVs with my current Parasound amp.

Slbenz

Thanks for the support guys. I have both good and bad news though. Most of it is a really long story, which I'll link you guys to when I'm done typing the post for the Steve Hoffman forum people.

The bad news first: For my current living situation, the MG12's are not truly appropriate for a couple of reasons. Not what you'd think though: Reason one being that I do a lot of my current listening not only just sitting, but while doing stuff around the living room area and kitchen.

The sound field or "sweet spot" as it were, is certainly best found while in the sitting position rather than standing, no matter the position (at least in that room). The room its self was about 12'W x 20'D and had some treatment on the ceiling. The room was sealed by one of those big ass metal doors you'd find in a restaurant kitchen where the dairy and meat goes. Closed that way too.

The second reason I figured in the short period of time I got to audition them, was that they seem absolutely phenomenal for acoustic music and vocals, as well as jazz... But they really don't seem to have the type of impact nor synergy needed for heavier music like rock..and for symphonic music, I got the impression that the low end was really lacking. I felt that the timpani in the piece I was listening to was lurking in there somewhere, but was being held back by some shield, and that was a bit unnerving to me.

Might it have been the amp ? Who's to say. It was an integrated McIntosh (don't know which model, because for reasons I'll say later, it is a moot point) that put out 140 wpc.

Now the good news. I actually really LOVED them when certain pieces were played. They absolutely shine with acoustic guitar, vocals, horns and woodwinds. Coltrane's sax was like...right there ! But what this means to me, is that I would absolutely want a dedicated listening room for such a pair of speakers.

For my current dwelling situation, that's not possible. It's an apartment. When we get a house, I will not hesitate to buy some Manepans for a dedicated room.

The speakers were not bi-wired either, so I can only imagine ... Also, I just can't get over the clarity and dynamics that these puppies bring out of music ! They're so revealing for their price range I think. The best part about them IMO, is how you can make such an obvious differentiation between what music coming out of a "box" (aka typical speakers) sounds like, vs. music that sounds like it's right there in the room with you, being played live.

It was quite depressing actually, having to walk out of there knowing that I had to continue to search for something a bit better (different)than my current speakers, but wanting something with the same "out of the box" attributes that the MG12's (or perhaps applies to all maggies) are able to deliver.

Another point I felt was critical, was how the salesman behaved. He was an absolute A-HOLE. But that, I'll re-post after I finish typing it for the SH forums, which I had already started. Probably tomorrow, if I still have the energy or care anymore.

Doug

It sounds like you could use some omni or multi directional speakers ..... that's the only way to get a very large sweetspot .

For what it's worth, I also am up and down -moving all around often while listening to music . I've been fortunate enough to own some Bose 601 II's since 1982 . They have a huge sound stage and the sweet spot is everywhere . The bass is incredible , easily into the mid/upper 20's . I bought these because I can't stand regular radar-beam-sound type speakers that you have to sit in front of to get good sound. If I have to be sitting in one spot I'd rather use some headphones

You can still find some used these days on ebay . Series II and III are the best. The woofers will need re-foamed, or like me I bought new-old stock woofers from them a few years ago for mine. I would not touch a current Bose product with a ten foot pole, but these were a real jewel for the maligned company . Too bad they changed them .

Another option may be something like some Ohm speakers. They often sell unlisted models in which they use recycled old cabinets and put in their current drivers and crossovers . These are the best deals from them, but not listed online . I had considered them before getting new woofers for my 601's, but I decided to keep the Bose instead. They should have models to fit in your budget . If you contact them, they recommend models by room size, and they may have something for you .

Mirage also has some omni- directional speakers, but they seem to have been going down hill over the years.

Think outside the "box" .

-cheers

Sweet Spot,

Another line of speakers to consider that can give you that "open" sound is Definitive Technology. Their BP line which uses front and rear drivers can give a similar open, sound like the Mirage and Ohm line of speakers. My brother-in-law owns the BP speakers with the built-in subs to each tower and likes them a lot. Like Magnepans, you need to give them some room to "breath" to perform at their best.

Slbenz

Garth, those Ohm speakers sound like an interesting concept, but beyond my price range for the moment. I figure that I won't be spending any more than between $1000 and $1300. Depends though. I was going to buy that pair of M200's for $300, which figures into that $1000 which I was going to spend on the Mannepans, so I'd like to try and stay within that range. If I hear a pair that is phenomenal for $1500 (no sub needed) I'd pony up I guess.

But I can't see spending upwards of 3k until my wife and I have bought a house. Priorities and all.

Doug

Sweet Spot, sorry to hear the MG12's won't serve you. One slight correction: the MG12's and MMG's are not biwirable, since they don't have separate connections for the tweeters and woofers as the MG1.6's do. Of course 1.6's also have jumpers for normal, "monowire" operation. Mine are biwired from the A and B outputs of the Adcom GFA535 (I leave both buttons pushed) and I THINK I hear a worthwhile difference in treble detail and clarity, but without A/B comparison I could be hearing autosuggestion. If I get some higher-priced speaker wire, e.g., Mapleshade, I'll go back to monowire with Mapleshade jumbers.

I mean, jumpers.