Model differences

Hi,

I am looking to purchase Model 5000. I just want to know the difference between Model 5000 and 7125 before making a purchase.
Is it just additional channels, 5 extra watts of power per channel and manufacturing location or something more than that?

Thanks

7125 = made in USA by ATI for Outlaw
5000 = made in China by ???

You already know about the difference in number of channels (2 less for the 5000) and difference in price (5000 is 60% of the price of a 7125).
I haven't heard either. Audition both and return the one you don't want. You're only responsible for the original shipping charge on the one you return.

My concern would be the noise floor difference. S/N specs aren't listed in the 5000 product page. I find it odd that S/N is listed for all the other amps they sell, but not this one (not in the product page or in the manual).

Best,

No worries about noise, the THD+N of this amplifier is only .05%! Outlaw Audio would never sell a noisy amplifier. We have had some great reviews of this amplifier from Audioholics to CNET to personal reviews from customers (please note: there is some cussing in the personal review that may not be appropriate for the younger Outlaws ).

The sonic signature of both amps will be very clean and neutral. With the Model 7125, you are paying for 2 extra channels of amplification. I'd be glad to discuss both amplifiers with you at (866) OUTLAWS.

OK then. Why not just publish the S/N spec? Now I'm curious.

Thanks,

If you are curious about the SNR, Audioholic's review, listed above, has a nice graph of the SNR and stated "The Model 5000 exhibited a commendably good noise floor of around 80-83dB at 1 watt, A-weighted." Bear in mind, 1 watt is when your signal to noise ratio will be at its worst. If you have questions about what this means in your real world environment, comparing SNR with other amplifiers, or have other questions about the Model 5000, we can always be reached M-F 9:00am - 5:00pm EST at (866) OUTLAWS.

OK, I guess I'll read that review then. I didn't think it was that big of a deal to ask why the manufacturer doesn't publish that data. If you didn't publish it for any of your amps, I'd perhaps be more understanding, but you only neglect to include it for that one particular amp. Strange.

80-83db @ 1W isn't particularly great. I'd classify that as acceptable, but nothing to write home about. Emotiva's XPA-5 (now their cheapest 5 channel amp) spec's out at 95db @ 1W and 119db at rated power. Just sayin...I haven't listened to that one either.

It would be great if Outlaw would make test data available like that company does. For example:

https://emotiva.com/resources/media/xpa5/xpa5_gen2_8ohm.pdf

Just using them as an example since you're both in the mail order audio business and cater to a similar market.

Best,

I have owned 2 separate XPR-5 amplifiers and my best friend owns one as well which I had on extended loan for 3.5 months. If you can get a good sample it provides a lot of power for the money. My friends sample was well made and extremely quiet even when connected to 5 Klipsch Cornwall speakers rated at 102db. I was not lucky. The amplifiers I received had poor fit and finish and were noisy. Emotiva Audio customer service is extremely deceptive when dealing with customer complaints. Check out the Emotiva Audio Better Business Bureau complaints. In all cases Emotiva Audio created lengthy process times before resolving the problems. In my opinion the good folks at Outlaw Audio seemed to be able to communicate better with the Chinese because my 5000 arrived looking liked a new component. Fit and finish was was almost equal to the 7700 I owned and it functioned perfectly. The reviews are accurate in describing the 5000 amplifier performance. I would not get hung up on one spec. Maybe if they charged more money you would sleep better. Number crunching is for the insecure I would not get caught up in that. The amplifier is $$$$ 599. Enough hearsay listen to one in person
I am looking forward to a 5 channel 400 watt amplifier next.
My 5000 is about 2 months old. Its the best bang for the buck I have seen in a long time. I have been in audio since 1974. My expectations have now been raised as to price verses performance.

Interesting. Scientific data = insecurity. I'll have to make a note of that. Perhaps someone should inform NASA.

I did take note of your BBB claim and looked for myself. There are 6 BBB complaints in the last THREE YEARS. I only looked at the details of the single one for the previous twelve months. It had nothing to do with the equipment and was a dispute over shipping (the buyer refused to sign for the 170lb package because it wasn't delivered to their doorstep and then complained that they had to eat the shipping charge).

I'm not an Emotiva customer, but I thought that was a rather cheap shot on your part. Publishing the SNR data for an audio amplifier when you want to market yourself as a high end audio company seems like a no brainer. I have been an Outlaw customer in the past and did find their service to be fantastic and I've noted that on a number of occasions here so nobody is disputing that. I know this first hand because I had an LFM sub that failed soon after purchase (the amp component). I was sent a new amp module which I had to install. No biggie...no muss...no fuss.

*shrug*

It used to be that any SNR, 100dB or greater, was considered excellent. Maybe it still is, by some of us. Now the SNR spec is "marketed" to upwards of 119dB or so. The "considered" excellent nature of "greater than 100dB ", is because, at that level or higher, noise is no longer discernible. Ben is correct, in that, measurements at 1 Watt, are when the SNR is at its worst. In my experience, Outlaw strives to offer products high in audio quality, first and foremost. I currently have the 975/7075 combo, which sounds great in my system.
I don't own the 5000 (yet), but I am considering purchasing one. Waiting for the Outlaw Atmos processor to come out. Then, I'll need another four channels of amplification. I also looked at the BBB listing, and also typed up Outlaw. Interestingly enough, but not surprising, Outlaw had no complaints with a rating of A+.

Whenever I go to a restaurant and receive a satisfying meal that is fairly priced I always tell my friends and family members so others can enjoy it as well. This is the experience I received with the purchase my 5000. The meal experience I had with the 3 times higher price Emotiva product was considerably less. If I wanted to deliver cheap shots I could have posted my entire experience with both pictures and a fully detailed time line of the events. I sparred everyone of that. My point to you specifically was you need not worry about this amplifier.

How silly of me to expect scientific testing data. Had I known that I could just rely on "singing italian's" word for it, I'd have bought a dozen units by now. :P

The "correct answer" from Outlaw would have been something like "Ooops, that was an oversight. Of course, we have test data for all of our products and we'll update the product page an manual with the SNR specifications."

However, based on the response from Ben, it doesn't appear to have been an oversight. So it leaves me wondering why they made such an obvious omission.

*shrug*

Maybe you should audition the Emo XPA-5 and the Outlaw 5000 and let us all know what you think. Is the potentially extra dB ratio above 100dB worth the extra bucks?
As I stated earlier, with any SNR above 100dB, the noise would no longer be discernable. ~83dB at 1 Watt, the 5000's SNR is sure to be somewhere above 100dB at full rated power.

I at least like the distortion specs listed for the 5000. I tend to also rely on third party reviews, like the one Singing Italian has provided, Thanks!
I also have read and watched the listed reviews Ben has referred to. Impressive.
Sure, the SNR was not posted for the 5000, for whatever reason. Certainly won't be a deal breaker for me.

I'm not in the auditioning mood these days. Happy with my Krell amp.

Think about how much time your amp spends @ 1W (or less) and then how much it spends at full rated power. Unless you're DJ'ing raves, I suspect I know the answer and which measurement means more.

I'm glad that you and your compadre will take things on faith and that the withholding of technical data that is standard in the industry doesn't phase you.

One would think that if the news was good it would be shared. If the news isn't so good you appear to get the slow roll.

But hey, anyone who wants to roll the dice can do so. If you don't like it, send it back. Outlaw is good for their word that they'll take it back if you're not happy.

Best,

All I see from your posting, with the repetitive negative feel and "out the side of your mouth" insults to other posters, is someone with an axe to grind. Why are you even on the outlaw forums?

You use things like "roll the dice", take things on "faith", and then say you love your Krell amp. Get over yourself.

I don't see any insults from me here. I can't say the same for you.

I noted the lack of data. Outlaw said "go look at this 3rd party review" if I wanted the data. I did. The data was average. Moving on....

*shrug*

I post here because I'm an Outlaw customer. Feel free to ignore my comments if you don't like them.

You're the one looking for the full rated spec. I happen to think 83 dB @ 1 watt is very good. My perspective of what the full rated spec most likely should be given the reviewed 1 Watt spec was for you. But, as you say, you're not in the market to buy.
So, if amplifiers are very rarely, if ever driven to full rated power, something I agree with, what's so important about needing to see that spec? Maybe you wanted to point out it wasn't there? You did, move on.

Actually, I wasn't "looking for the full rated spec." I was looking for ANY SNR spec. Neither the 1W or the full-rated SNR is listed by Outlaw. I pulled the spec above from the review that was cited. 83db @ 1W is OK. Not awful, but not great either. I wasn't expecting audiophile numbers given the price point, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an amplifier manufacturer publish such a common data point, especially given the types of folks that this segment seems to attract....people looking for high performance while not breaking the bank. Wow, that was an awfully long sentence.

I still continue to enjoy what remains of my Outlaw equipment, a couple of LFM-1 units.

Best,

Cheap Shot you say. Not at all. Consumers need to be informed.
Since I first posted the " Cheap Shot" Emotiva Audio customer service continues to fall.

Emotiva Audio Corporation

(615) 790-6754View Additional Phone Numbers135 SE Parkway Ct, Franklin, TN 37064-3968http://www.emotiva.com

BBB® Non-Accredited D- Rating
On a scale of A+ to F Reason for Rating BBB Ratings System Overview
- See more at: http://www.bbb.org/nashville/business-re...h.wo3U6Ryc.dpuf

Outlaw Audio A+ Life Time Rating.

Interesting. Another complaint about shipping charges (not the product). So now there's a whopping TWO complaints in the past 12 months.

*yawn*

You guys are amusing. You take a genuine question about Outlaw "hiding" data on their new amp and turn it into FUD based on two complaints of people who seem to have issues with shipping charges rather than the quality of their purchase.

Is that really the best you can do?

Again, I no longer own my Outlaw amp and I've never owned an Emotiva amp so I don't really have a dog in this fight. However, the response to a relatively innocuous ask about amp specifications has been eye opening. Might I suggest a bit of educational reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect

Best,

Gentlemen,

We are not here to talk badly about our competitors. Voicing personal experiences and thoughts when owning other pieces of equipment is perfectly acceptable; however, there is no need to make comments about a competitor's BBB rating. We try not to get too involved in the forums and to instead let things run their course. With that said, when subject matter turns to knocking other companies, we have to draw the line.

It is provocative at best, if not downright confrontational, when someone "yawn(s)" in regards to another's post and continues on to ask if that is the best they can do. This kind of approach is not what we are about at Outlaw Audio.

When someone claims we are hiding things after we have offered to speak with them multiple times, have responded with bench tests, provided an amplifier's SNR at its very worst, and in addition, also provided THD + N then it is clear they will not be satisfied and it is time to move on.

Therefore, this topic will now be locked; it is about time we go back to the hobby that brought us all here and enjoy some music and movies, whether it's on an Emotiva, Krell or Outlaw system, or anything else available in the market place.