What is Signal to Noise to noise ratio for this?

What is Signal to Noise to noise ratio for this? , I have 7125 and it is: 119 DB A weighted.

Can anyone from outlaw comment? I did not find this in the specs...

Since Outlaw won't comment, then I will take a stab. Because your 7125 is not dual differential like the 7500/7700 then the 5000 would most definitely not be >120db A. This amp is made overseas like the 2200 and is not built by ATI, who builds ATI house brand, Theta, and Cinenova. All of these are high-end amps.

I am going to guess and say that the 5000 will be closer to 112db A like the 2200.

Thanks Beyond 1000... that seems reasonable...!

Now it would be good that Outlaw puts a "see it huge" option in the gallery. Maybe they don't want to advertise "Made in China..sorry...made in P.R.C." or maybe "Made in Taiwan".

When I bought my first Outlaw equipment back (gosh) 10+ years ago, they were at the forefront in terms of value for what I deemed to be audiophile quality gear. I remember having folks over to listen to my 990+755 through a Magnepan-based surround system + LFM subs and watching their jaws drop. The jaws dropped further when some of them realized they'd paid 4-5X the cost and were getting similar sonic results. And then things went stagnant with Outlaw. We had a series of head fakes with processors that they were unable to deliver on after much hand waving and an amplifier line-up that until now has been mostly unchanged. The only development of consequence has been their uptake of the HPAS speaker design. That's it. The rest has been mostly "race to the bottom" gadgets produced in China...including this new amp.

Perhaps I'm just a really harsh critic, but I haven't seen any reason to spend money with Outlaw since that day I initially joined the cult over a decade ago. Other than the service, which I think we can all acknowledge is top notch, what keeps folks coming back? With the exception of their HPAS speakers and ATI-produced amps, what do they produce anymore that's of high quality AND price competitive? Ipod docks? Really? What am I missing?

Best,

Can anyone that actually owns one of these amps please provide some input. The OLD argument about where a piece of gear is built is pretty much hashed out. Those of you that care where it is built will not buy one anyways. Those of us who don't have a problem with the origination location will at least try to consider it on its merits knowing it was designed by Outlaw to provide a balance between performance and value.

I do not have one of these amplifiers but own several pieces of made in China gear. I am mostly concerned about the longevity of the lead free soldering processes which seem to be the current world wide standard.

I would not expect a company like Outlaw to be an innovator in the amplifier market and do not think they have ever tried to go that route. Looking at the spec sheets the Model 5000 design is based on solid foundations. I would prefer to see the power supply located centrally so the heat sinks could be faced outboard around the perimeter of the case for better heat dissipation but that is just me. At the designed output levels I doubt heat is much of an issue.

For $600.00 it looks like it could be a great value to someone starting in separates.

Gettin the lead out has been the standard since 2006 in the EU and almost all electronics produced since then have been lead free. It would seem at this point that it is reliable and not only a China thing.

Maybe things have improved in the past few years. When I worked depot service for a notebook manufacturer half of the hardware failures we saw were due to issues with the lead free solder. Half of those were connectors so blame a few on the customers but not all because we did not see those types of failures prior to the change.

I was trying to make the point that it is the process I do not trust more so than where something is made. As far as where something is made we get what we pay for. There are some excellent Chinese manufacturers and there are some very bad ones just like every other country.

While reading up trying to decide which pre/pro I was going to buy I started in the reviews eliminating companies based on the number of "it did not work out of the box" to the number of first 90 days hardware failures. Since the implementation of lead free solder the DOA rate for electronics larger than tablet/notebook size has increased. Outlaw did not factor into that category so they seem to be going to a decent manufacturer.

As far as longevity goes heat seems to be the enemy now more than ever. I am shocked at how much hotter the Model-975 runs compared to the old school active/passive 2 channel unit it replaced. I have it on top of the cabinet now with spacers under its feet so should be good to go until software makes it obsolete.

I have no idea who rolls the boards for Outlaw but they seem to be done well. I would like to find an out of warranty non-mosfet unit for a bit of experimenting.

I took several years for the industries to get quality lead free solder as the rule. Like every new tech, as experience with the technique has increased so has the quality of the devices. As electronics get smaller and faster the lead issue has decreased dramatically but it is a good thing to get out of the environment. I shudder to think all the times I have closed lead splitshot sinkers using my teeth when fishing.

I don't understand why your 975 would run hotter than older equipment since it is basically a computer in a bigger better ventilated box. I don't own one but neither my 990 or either of my Onkyos run warm. I saw somewhere that one of those laptop cooling platforms worked well.

My new cabinet was still in the garage being finished so I placed the 975 inside the cabinet where the Adcom unit had been. Open front and back but it did not like being there. With the new cabinet in the house it is out in the open and much happier. I can see how a passively cooled, microprocessor based, unit could run hot. There is quite a bit going on inside the case.

The NorthBridge in a desktop computer is passive cooled but you cannot put your fingers on it for anything other than just a touch. Total derail of the thread but the OP seemed to be done with it.

Looks like they fixed the "oops" on the HDMI daughter board. The hand soldered trace wire is now gone.

I have not seen that in a while. I can remember when jumpers were the order of the day. You populate the board then run it through the wave solder machine. Once all of that was done the boards went to the lab to determine why they did not work. On the up side a run of boards will have the same issue so once you know the fix it goes back into production quickly.

The good ol days

Getting back to the OP, the review done by Audioholics says the SNR at 1 watt is about 83. No full power measurement was done.

Unfortunately this is the thing with me as well. If Outlaw does bring out their new hi-end pre-amp the idea is to get it out at $1500 or less. Also I would like to see a smaller 2 channel ATI-based unit in addition to or in place of the 2200s. Outlaw has how many multi-channel amps in their line up now? A Blu-ray player would be nice as well but even Emotiva is not going that route since they don't want to pay licensing fees to that self-cannibalizing Blu-Ray Disc Association.

The idea with Outlaw is higher sonic quality than the Made in China Emotiva brand.

beyond 1000,

Normally, I would not answer an opinion post, but in this case, I will make an exception.

The country of origin does not guarantee the quality (or lack of it). Rather it is the other things that count: the product design, (especially the circuitry), choice of components, attention to detail, and strict production process control.

"Made in USA" does not necessarily mean a product is great unless all of the above and other requirements are taken into consideration. Conversely the same is true for products "Made in China". Case in point: (Many of us own I-phones and Oppo Blu-Ray players (both great products made in China). Be it China,Taiwan, Malaysia, Mexico, Brazil, Germany or the U.S., the rules are all the same when it comes to designing and manufacturing a quality product. The burden of ensuring those high standards, falls upon the brand itself.

The Model 5000 reviews below (from two very different publications) tell it all. We submitted the amplifier to them because of their very different approaches to an evaluation. That said, their final conclusions are remarkably similar.

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/outlaw-5000

http://www.cnet.com/news/the-affordable-...ower-amplifier/


In the end, we have one Outlaw rule. Every product we offer for sale we would all own for ourselves. The 5000 will soon become part of my own system.

Peter

Peter
I totally agree with you. I just took delivery of the new 5000. This amplifier is a real steal. The review on audioholics is spot on. I was looking for a monster amp to drive my Dunlavy LCR speaker system. I looked at the Emotiva XPR-5 and the Outlaw 7700. I have previously owned Pass Lab X250 and Aleph-3. This amplifier really does set a new benchmark. This amp is clearly better overall than the 7700 I previously owned. Even though the 7700 has a higher power specifications this little amp really drives difficult loads. When listening to the 7700 in my system using Outlaw 990/Oppo BDP-105 the 7700 played louder at any given volume setting but when I pushed the 7700 hard the base got slightly softer. The 7700 was extremely quiet and clean at the speakers. The high frequency extension was not that great and the sound field is flat. The amplifier sounded more like a clean PA amplifier. Tonally it was neutral but sterile.
The 5000 keeps the neutral tonal quality of the 7700 but adds more body to the sound. The base also does not change when you throttle it. The amp is extremely clean with a low noise floor. Even though it’s not a balanced design like the fully balanced 7700 the 5000 is just as quiet. I here no noise coming from the speakers at all even with my ears planted into the speaker grills. The 2 most significant factors for me were the extended high frequencies and the sound field. This little amplifier is equal to the Aleph 3 in imaging and depth. The highs provide natural detail and are very airy.
The Emotive XPR-5 provides 600 watts into a 4 ohm load. With that much power it would throw my Dunlavys around the room with great weight to the sound. The base clearly had more slam but the 5000 had better differentiation of different types of base instruments. The Emotiva XPR-5 added a slight sameness of sound to all base instruments. The tonal balance is overly warm on Emotiva but the soundfield is slightly bigger. The 5000 sound is closer to the sounds of real instruments. (I run our church sound system)The Emotiva highs have a slight wiry quality I do not like. The highs on the 5000 are wide open and smooth but retain natural bite.
The 5000 is not a budget amp but the steal of the century.
Make sure it’s powered on its own circuit. When I ran it on a 15 amp circuit that was loaded with multiple devices I first thought this isn't going to be very good. This would have been a tragic mistake. I also found a little tweak that improved the amp further. I plugged it into a Power Wedge 116 line conditioner. Further weight added to sound and even tighter base.
Made in PROC does not have mean cheap. I am very picky. Now that I am retired I have time to really compare components and this really is a good amplifier.

BRAVO BRAVO
Outlaw Audio
You too Peter

Singing
Italian

Singing Italian,


Thank you for your detailed evaluation. As you might have read, since the Model 5000 was our first multi--channel amp amplifier to be manufactured offshore, we put many months in working to get all the details right. Reading positive feedback from one of our customers is very gratifying. We also look forward to more customer reviews.

Best Regards,

Peter