Marantz AV77702 with Dolby Atmos

Is there any plans for Outlaw to carry the new Marantz pre-processors with Dolby Atmos ?

My guess is probably not. If I recall correctly I think Outlaw made some reference that they would be coming to market with and Atmos enabled pre-processor.

Err... actually we ARE going to carry the new Marantz 7702 ATMOS enabled processor Its retail is $2000.

The 7702's positioning really does not conflict with our own Atmos processor (now in development and targeted for mid 2015) and, of course, the 7702 is way above $550 for our award winning model 975 processor. Matched with our own power amps we expect the 7702 is going to be a great high-end system. We feel that at $2000 there is NO processor presently in that price range that competes with it.

As you can probably guess, we will offer some very interesting packages, one of which might contain a "surprise".

When released, the 7702's will be on allocation and we have been in the queue for some time. Watch the skies.

Peter

Sir, You ARE a tease...

Peter,

You'll probably see thru this shameless attempt to get some information out of you, but I'll try anyway.

I thought in a previous "teaser" you said that you'll be having a pre/pro that is going to be in this price range and be Atmos enabled. Judging by the timelines as I understand them, I wouldn't think you'd be selling the AV7702 for no more than 6 months until you'd have the Outlaw unit on the market. Are my thoughts correct on this?

Can you please give us any information about the upcoming pre/pro?

Also, while I'm groveling, there was some mention of new Outlaw products for this year awhile back. When can we expect some update on those products as well.

It's been pretty quiet around here lately. I'm sure we'd all love a little something to discuss.

Thank You!

mdrconsult,

Very clever post on your part. So here are my answers: In our "shameless" way I will announce that the new processor will have.......a plug

Now to answer your very good question:

After we launch our new Atmos processor in very late spring, we will continue to offer the 7702. The two products really do not conflict because of positioning. The 7702 is a very feature rich product that will be a great performer.

As with are other Outlaw processors and receivers (when we offered them) we will focus on relative simplicity. In its own way, the 975 represents this approach. That product is simple to set up and use, and it gets the essentials very right. In an AV environment where the pace of change itself is actually accelerating, this is our biggest challenge. Our hardest decisions are not what "features" we want to include, but which ones we want to forego.

The above might sound strange to many of our customers but this is the hardest part of designing this product.


As for new products, we are quite close to announcing and shipping something new.This product represents "threading the needle" and it has taken a year of development to get it just right. You will soon receive an announcement of what it is, why it is, and how we did it. (I'm sure that is pretty clear) The product is presently out for review and our "estimate" is availability in the first week of November.

Peter

Way to "plug" the next processor! I look forward to learning more about it next year. The den system should be back up and running by Christmas, so it could be a good fit for me.

It has been many months since I've posted in the Saloon but talk of a new Outlaw pre/pro always gets my attention. I'm glad to hear it will have a plug! My compliments to Outlaw as my 990 is still working fine and I'm hoping any new Outlaw pre/pro can offer the 990's longevity. FYI, I never missed DVI connections. However a $2000 feature rich pre/pro like the 7702 is pretty much a waste for me since I'd only use a few of the features so I appreciate the new pre/pro will "...focus on relative simplicity." I will stay tuned for more info!

AvFan,

Thanks for the post. Your explanation matches our goal. Our release of the 7702 is imminent and we will kick off the introduction, with a UNIQUE package (while supplies last) for this feature-rich processor.

The new Outlaw processor coming in late spring, will (as you point out) focus on simplicity.

Both the Marantz and our Outlaw processor will be great performing products. So it all comes down to fitting ones' needs.

Peter

Soooo... How far in advance of release will we get to see details on this new processor? Will there be any loyalty discounts as there have been in years gone by?

I have a older Outlaw 950 Preamp with 7100 amp which is still working strong but want to upgrade. Was considering the 575 but now there is the new atmos processor coming out. Is there going to be any trade in programs to make me consider buying the 575 now and trading it in for the newer atmos processor later ?

dandiodati,

To address your concerns, here is what we wrote when we announced we were starting work on an Outlaw Atmos processor:

... "we will offer special programs for owners of current Outlaw processors so that present and future owners of the Model 975 can experience its award winning performance while being assured of an attractive pathway to this new processor."

Peter

Somehow I missed that line! Thanks, Peter!

This is indeed a nice unit and not just with Atmos!

Auro 3D is a planned upgrade in Dec.

http://www.auro-3d.com/blog/denon-and-marantz-to-support-auro-3d-upgrade-available-in-december/

For those who are unfamiliar with Auro 3D here is a video:

Like many, I can't cut in ceiling speakers for an optimal Atmos install, however I can easily do height speakers.
...and I suspect many can also.

bootman,

Thank you for you posts. The Auro 3D video was very interesting. Also, I think it's great that the AV7702 is going to support it. However, I'm having a hard time conceiving how you could get both Atmos and Auro 3D to coexist in the same room (assuming a home theatre) without having a bunch of extra speakers and possibly having to switch cables back and forth. Auro does not want the ceiling speakers and frankly most Atmos users would probably be using the upward pointing speakers anyway. And I don't know what Atmos would do with the elevation speakers that are required for Auro. So it seems to me the average consumer would have to pick one or the other setup.

If in fact you are effectively limited to just one of these technologies for a given speaker configuration, may initial feeling would be to go with the Auro. My reasoning being that the requisite elevation speakers could use a greater variety of speakers, i.e. ones that would match sonically with my 5.1 equipment. However, another thing to consider is going to be how much content will there be. In that regard I think Auro is way behind. I think I'll wait this one out for awhile before I jump in.

Now the next big question is will Outlaw's upcoming processor support Auro. I'm almost hoping it won't! I'd hate to see the Outlaw processor get caught in the death spiral of feature creep.

The main 5.1 speakers around ear level are the same for Atmos and Auro. If the first pair of height speakers are designated "Front Heights" then they will work with Atmos and Auro (and their associated upmixers) and even DTS Neo:X.

The problem is the second pair of height speakers. If you designate them "Surround Heights", then they will only work with Auro, since there is no such designation for Atmos. Likewise, if you designate them "Top Middle" or "Top Rear", then they will only work with Atmos, since those designations don't apply to Auro.

So it's not so dire, since all the speakers except one pair will work with both formats. Personally, I would not fuss over Auro. There doesn't seem to be enough content on the horizon to make it worth the rumored $249-299 firmware upgrade.

Peter,

I applaud Outlaw's efforts at design and operation simplicity, since the Marantz processor represents overkill for my system. However, I would like to suggest the following from my experience with the 975 processor. I would drop some of the older technology such as composite and component jacks in favor of including 7.1 analog ch jacks for use with DSD rather than PCM as well as HDMI of course. A processor ranging in the $1K range is what I am driving at.

crlalbr

I'm not sure this is the appropriate place to put this, but I found it interesting. The Dolby layouts I've seen for ATMOS haven't really agreed with my thoughts on positioning. Also, I really hadn't put much thought into using wide channels. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DFbqJkjfABQ

First off: Thanks for that link. I thought 1 hour 12 minutes? You're kidding? but I was riveted.

And it brings up the very important question of what is the minimal, best-bang-for-the-buck Dolby ATMOS configuration for home theater use?

If we believe the video post (which makes a lot of sense from an engineering point of view, imho) then there is more benefit for a 9.x.2 system than there is for a 7.x.4 system.

So what paradigm is the new Outlaw processor going to implement? And why? I say without shame that my house is currently full out Outlaw Audio. products Why should I take the next step?

The minimal 5.1.2 set-up will give you the essence of Atmos by letting you hear sounds around you vs sounds above you. For anyone that already has a minimal 5.1 set-up, that means either adding a pair of speakers overhead or a pair of Atmos-enabled height modules. Everything beyond that is an incremental improvement (i.e., better sounds around you and better sounds above you). A little lopsided for my tastes. Given 11 speakers, I would do a more balanced 7 around me and 4 above me. Plus, 4 speakers above allows for left-vs-right AND front-vs-back movement overhead.

Grimani's rooms tend to be a bit overdamped for my tastes. By absorbing early lateral reflections he reduces soundstage width, then advocates speakers at the Wide locations to fix a problem he created.

Hmmmm, You're #3 point, gives me something to think about.

Funny, isn't everyone enjoying Atmos now doing so with non Atmos media.
It seems Dolby Surround is what the fuss is about. How many Atmos disks are out now? one?
Isn't Auro doing the same until actual media comes out?

Both pro and con arguments apply to all of these new formats.
Even DTS's solution that isn't even out yet.

Transformers 4, Step Up All In, Expendables 3, Teenage Muntant Ninja Turtles (John Wick, Gravity, announced). If you're willing to import Japanese releases, then you can add Transcendence, Enchanted Kingdom and I,Frankenstein to the list. Not to the same degree when it comes to encoded content. I'll paraphrase my earlier comment you quoted: personally, I would not spend $200 on the Auro upmixer.

I don't guess any specs have been put out for the new pre/pro. I sure would like to know besides ATMOS, if it will include DTS-X. Also if it'll have Audyssey XT32 and support multiple subs. Trying to wait instead of pulling the plug on the AV7702.

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=94612#Post94612

Thanks Sanjay

I am trying to decide if I should pull the trigger on the AV7702. I bought an Onkyo 886 when Outlaw offered them. It's treated me very well. However, Atmos is intriguing as I could easily add four ceiling channels to my 7.1 setup. I was just curious if there would be a noticeable difference between the 886 and the 7702 for non-Atmos entitled tracks to justify the expense. If anyone has heard both of these processors, any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

The new processors can decode many more formats -- if you increase the number of channels in your home theater that can have a much more immersive feeling -- http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/art...io-review/13896

The other less obvious side effect is that the new pre-pros also use higher precision DSPs and lower crosstalk / noise floor circuitry to handle the increased bandwidth of the new formats which generally translates into an improved clarity even for the old formats. Depending on how quiet your listening area is and how carefully you've setup your existing system this may be subtle or very noticeable, it is not really just a function of the new pre-pro but even things as basic as how quietly you can tolerate your audio playback before it overcomes the sounds of your HVAC system and other appliances -- one time I helped a friend spec out a pretty basic home theater and it sounded pretty nice for not very much money but then he (or his wife or somebody) decided it would be convenient to have a fridge in the same room and I tell you that old compressor meant you need to up the volume about 20% and to drown out that thing. The psychological effect was that the quietest scenes had the actors screaming at your to "cover up" the fridge sounds...

I doubt you could tell any audible difference in normal 7 channel or stereo listening. One of the intriguing but less than clear aspects of Atmos and DTS-x is that higher end bluray players should be able to decode the dedicated tracks. What is fuzzy is whether some of the output channels could be set to act as the object channels. Imagine that you have a 5.1 system and you want to dedicate the rear surrounds to atmos, will the setup allow you to do that just by connecting the back channels to the amp and go. The Onkyo 886 already has three 32 bit DSP chips so I believe it has the processing power but maybe not the firmware pathway. While I believe the object based audio will catch on, it may be too much of a leap to invest in even more high end gear with limited source material and a lot of uncertainty as to what the firmware in all the new equipment will look like and integrate into current systems. I am currently building a home theater in my basement and I will allow for the eventual upgrade path but for now I plan on 7.2 channels max

The Audyssey room correction on the 7702 is noticeably better than the older Audyssey version on the 886, especially in the low frequencies.