A year or so later...

I've been away from this forum for quite a while inasmuch as my Marantz 7701 and Outlaw 755 combo have served my purposes quite well. But recently, the 755 has been "acting up" (tripping itself off for no apparent reason) and so I've come back to check out the forum's thoughts on the 5000 (probably my replacement unit when the 755 finally kicks it). I'm amazed and saddened that the inability to nail down a new pre-pro is playing itself out...again.

I won't pretend to understand the vagaries of development and manufacturing enough to speculate as to why this might be, but I sincerely hope that Outlaw accomplishes something in this area, soon, because it appears (judging by the forum, admittedly not statistically valid) as if many loyal Outlaws are tiring of the wait and the lack of information and are moving on and finally dropkicking their 990's for other brands. I do know a little bit about marketing communications, however, and it seems that Outlaw is way past the logic of keeping mum to control expectations (a good idea)and into the stonewall phase of non-communication on the new product (an increasingly bad idea with each passing week/month/?).

Wishing Outlaw the best for 2016 and hoping they introduce something that will give me the "upgrade bug" again.

+1

Agreed. Want to be able to upgrade my 990 with a new Outlaw pre-pro. Am hoping we have some sort of an update by the time Outlaw Ben's 1/15/15 post is a year old.

What made the new Outlaw processor unique a year ago was having both the object codecs in one box. Now I have seen a few with all three codecs in one box even though DTS-x has yet to be fired out. Getting market share enough to justify the development costs becomes less and less achievable as time goes on. Unless this thing comes in at an incredible price I don't see it being unique enough to get Joe consumers attention away from the big boys and most of us have moved on at this point.

I'd like some information on it, too. I upgraded to the 975 mostly to get the current generation audio codecs as the 1050 lacked HDMI inputs. At the time, the five input restriction didn't bother me and I couldn't see it being an issue any time soon. I love the performance of the 975 but I'm definitely feeling the input restriction now. Three of the five are used up in video game systems alone! That update bug has been starting to bite me again and I'd love to stick with the Outlaws. Let's hope they bring us some details soon!

You make good points, XenonMan, but if Outlaw has come to the same conclusion (which I hope not) those of us who are holding out should be advised to consider other alternatives.

We have been through this a few times over the last 3-4 years and when the item goes 6 month past its initial ETA it seems that Outlaw doesn't want to give any news. What happens here is that the loyalists tend to tune the forum out and move on to other equipment of which there is an incredible selection. I love Outlaws customer service and my equipment has been very reliable over the years so that is why I stick. I am unlikely to upgrade my current system until catastrophe strikes so the new processor delay is not an issue for me. I am (like many) very curious to see what Outlaw pulls out of their hat. My concern is that when the other processors went down the tubes there was a lot of silence before the cancellation notice and a lot of re-marketing of Onkyo and Marantz processors.

March will begin to herald in the annual announcements from Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha (Maybe Pioneer, doubt Marantz) regarding their "new" products for 2016. With the collaboration between Pioneer and Onkyo, it should be interesting.

Maybe Outlaw will want to be part of the "refresh season", maybe not.

I met Peter at CES a couple of years ago, showing his new speakers. It wasn't an Outlaw showing and I don't think Outlaw per se exhibits at CES, does it?

'

From what I recall, that is accurate. Mr. Tribeman has enough "industry experience" that he is on the CES Audio Division Board -- https://www.cta.tech/Membership/Divisions-and-Councils/Home-Audio-Division.aspx but that is as a representative of Atlantic Technologies.

I suspect that folks "in the know" know better than to bother Peter at CES about "Outlaw"...

The other thing that is striking about Outlaw is how long they tend to build / sell many of their products. The RR2150 is still VERY MUCH a solid product about a DECADE after its debut, compared to the needless "annual product cycle" of many mass market brands I have every reason to believe that a nice STABLE new pre-pro, with immersive codecs, will remain a SOLID value for many many years...

I don't know where Peter finds the energy. When I'm in my 70's, I intend to be spending my days sailing in the tropics or playing golf with the grand kids. The prospect of spending that time in the commercial shark tank we know as China seems rather unappealing.

I think the odds of Outlaw getting their own one-off design to market are slim. Far more likely is another attempt at partnering with a 3rd party to sell an Outlaw branded product...and that means they're at the mercy of that partner's priorities. We know how that worked out last time.

There's plenty of product from a number of large manufacturers (some are even resold here) that are refreshed annually and fall within the price points we've come to expect from Outlaw over the years. I have to wonder how many units Outlaw would have to sell just to break even in such an endeavor....though at this point, perhaps it has become personal. One thing is for sure...there are a number of us "old timers" who are curious to see how it all plays out.



“For small erections may be finished by their first architects; grand ones, true ones, ever leave the copestone to posterity. God keep me from ever completing anything. This whole book is but a draught—nay, but the draught of a draught. Oh, Time, Strength, Cash, and Patience!”

Herman Melville, Moby-Dick

ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY! And still no word on the pre/pro supposedly in development. I'm rapidly losing hope that there will be an Outlaw product. Tell us what's going on, Outlaws. We're trying to keep the faith here.

We've all driven past a "construction site" that clearly has encountered some kind of problem.

The town next to me has a Lincoln dealer that generally does a good business, but their showroom is ancient and they've had a sign in the window promising "New Showroom Coming Spring of 2014" Coming Soon ??? . For while they revised it to "2015". Now they've scrubbed off the year altogether, the assumption must be that is smarter than updating the sign to say 2016 (or 17 or 18)... { btw there is also this former Arby's that was 99% converted to Hardees that never opened right up the street -- The Hardees that never was apparently the site has some 'water main issues' If that sounds bleak, rest assured that the Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus and BMW stores right up the street are all fine ...}

My point is "stuff happens". In the case of the car dealer I suspect that it is like many such businesses -- there are ebbs and flows in how much profit they make from used cars and whatever vehicle Matthew McConaughey is driving aimlessly around in ... And more than a little of that ebb flow must make any conservative owners very leary of "betting the farm" on new showroom that may not help the bottom the line...

Outlaw still has LOTS of nice amps, a decent little HDMI prepro, a killer two channel receiver and will LIKELY eventually figure out how to bring a flagship to market...

Yea, stuff definitely happens and those of us around for the meltdown some had in the community when the last one didn't pan out understand why Outlaw keeps their cards close to the vest now. Some people just can't temper expectations or react with maturity when things don't go their way. As such, we can't have nice things now. It's the same principle I apply when my daughters fight over something. Rather than deal with all the headache of who's right, I just take it away and neither of them get it. We couldn't play nice as a group so they took away the prize. It's disheartening and I wish it were otherwise but I can't fault them for this approach.

But now WE are "playing nice". Us long-time Outlaw customers are much nicer and respectful than the folks ranting on Outlaw during the 978 cycle. Yes, Outlaw made the right decision going forward to not promise a delivery date and to not post regular updates, which would generally have been explanations for pushing out the schedule and would have drawn continual criticism. HOWEVER, I believe one year without an update is an unreasonable length of time. This ain't my first rodeo - I've been in sourcing management of electronics manufacturing for 36 years.

ronov8r: I like your funny reference to Matthew McConaughey :-)

At first glance I thought it was Mr. Mayhem.

I'm still using my 975 for now. Still waiting. Hope this year will be the one. I'm ready whenever they are.

The whole point is that Outlaw announced this thing a year ago and we are still calling it by generic names such as "the thing" because even though they said it would be available around the end on the second quarter 2015 they have yet to give it a name or any update since the waaayy overdue date.

I've been on this merry-go-round long enough to know that you guys need to take it all with a huge grain of salt. If/when their plans come to fruition, then we can eyeball whatever is presented and decide if it's up to snuff. Until then.....life's too short to spend cycles thinking about what they might do after a couple of pretty high profile airballs in this space. I'm sure if they're able to deliver, we'll all hear about it when it's ready. We're talking about a company with a couple of employees and low single digit millions in sales so it could take a while.

Best,

Count me as a waiter also. While my 975 cranks along in glorious 7.1 and feeds my 4K projector with worthy 2K info - I just feel like "I want more" [Rocko KL 1949 - I think]. Hearing the dedicated Outlaws (experts) opining with no hint of "a beta underway" makes me wonder where the Outlaws are going. After a year + a couple years without a high-end product this has all makings of " a milking before the bailing." Tell me it ain't so.

Well JDBoo1, "It ain't so"

We have been dark about progress because much of the technical info from the technology companies and chip vendors has changed. In the next day or two we will provide an update on where things stand. By the way, you might have noticed some of our colleagues and competitors are delayed also. There is a good reason for that. Stay tuned.

Thanks for chiming in, Peter. I look forward to seeing the update!

Bob

Yahoo! Can't wait to see what they have to say!

Well, I just read Outlaw Ben's product update, and it's the DSP chip supplier that's the holdup, having big trouble implementing Dolby's Atmos code on-chip.
Thank Ben, I hope your supplier solves its problems and gets a golden chip to you soon.

Much Thanks! Glad that there is something that looks like "light at the end of tunnel of unspecified length" rather than anything DOA...

I have been involved with much less involved projects where a "supplier" made some changes that had a domino effect on others. The end result will very likely be a BETTER product that has a much LONGER usable life (it seems like the bandwidth for the rec.2020 10-bit color spec can be accommodated with this iteration, that is EXCELLENT NEWS! -- http://www.cnet.com/news/ultra-hd-tv-color-part-ii-the-future/) Similarly, the VALUE that Peter hints at may be one very similar to that of "David's tiny slingshot taking down a literal GIANT more associated with true Professional Cinema Installations" -- http://www.homecinemachoice.com/news/article/datasat-ls10-review/21485

For a product like that and Outlaw price I will gladly wait a while longer...

Good to hear some news, looking forward to seeing the end result! I guess the only question I would have is in regard to the possibility of switching the DSP supplier. The response is that it would require too much re-work and would delay release even further, but if you have no idea when you are going to be in receipt of the "gold" code, how can you confidently assert that switching suppliers would actually take longer? Just curious.

Has a model number been announced for the upcoming processor? It makes it easier to reference than "the new Outlaw processor, positioned above the Outlaw 975, that contains oodles of sonic performance goodness"

It would also allow the creation of a new forum and give threads such as this a proper landing spot.

Great post with some nice surprises! Thanks for the update! I'm glad to hear that y'all are going to be able to be compliant with all the latest and greatest video hardware requirements. That's fantastic news and adds another notch in the longevity belt. Keep up the good work, Outlaws! I can hardly stand the wait for pictures and specs and everything else!

Thanks for the info, Outlaws! As long as my 990 holds out, I can wait for what sounds like a stellar product.

I'm glad they made an update finally. I'm sure it will be a great processor. Not sure if this has anything to do with the delay, but I know Marantz's AV8802A firmware updates for DTS:X are slated for early February and the updates should start pushing out for AV7702mkII early March. Just passing on information. I ended up getting the mkII at a discounted price, so I bit..... But I did end up getting the Outlaw model 5000 for the overhead channels instead of using my Outlaw model 750.

I think the jury is out until there is an actual shipping product that we can eyeball. There are a bunch of processors now available in the $1-2k range that offer pre-out, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction and a host of other features. Outlaw will have to compete with that. They'll have to offer better sound, better features, better price, or some combination of those. If they've still got the designers of the 990 on hand and can utilize merchant silicon to get the features and performance required, perhaps they can pull it off.

We'll see.