975 upgrade

I am thinking of replacing my 990 for the 975 . Size is one consideration as well as HDMI, as well as better audio.
Will the 975 and the 7700 amplifier that I have be just as good a match as the 990/7700?
Also I have read about the the 975 firmware update which concerns me b/c I do not have a laptop. I have a IMac and an iPad.
Would the 975's purchased at this time have the new update already installed?

Thanks

I would think the 975/7700 combo would be an excellent match and the 975 will come from the factory with the newest firmware installed. One drawback (if you use them) could be the inability to use the 7.1 outputs from the OPPO to input to the 975.

I'm planning to get the Oppo 105 or the 4k equivalent next year OR the Cambridge 752s 4k equivalent. I prefer to set up the calibration myself and utilize the 7.1 inputs which I use now. This is why for me the 975 won't really work. Hopefully the new processor will have those inputs but I doubt it actually will.

I asked Ben about the firmware when I purchased and was assured that any unit shipping would be fully updated. I have a geek buddy locally who offers firmware updating services to those unable to do so themselves. If you have someone local you use that may be an option.

I seem to be in the minority here at Outlaw but to me one of the benefits of the M-975 is I am able to divorce myself from the analog outs from the OPPO BDP-103 and run a single HDMI. I find the M-975 does a much better job of handling the audio chores. Other forums have gone into great detail on this with most finding the down mixing in the OPPO to be lacking.

The audio section of the BDP-105 is a completely different animal to the BDP-103 so Beyond 1000's situation is most likely different to my own.

I agree the single HDMI is a godsend as far as cable management goes. The only way to get the newer codecs to the 990 is through those analog outputs on the OPPO and they are just awesome.

Which other forums are you referring to? I would like to read them myself.

The AVS forums official OPPO BDP-103 thread went for better than 200 pages at one point. It covered everything from unpacking to networking. I tried to incorporate the TV and stereo running through the OPPO prior to the 2 channel preamp.

I ran from the Dish Network receiver HDMI out to the HDMI in on the OPPO. HDMI out of the OPPO to my Samsung and analog R & L to the Adcom pre. The down mixing from the OPPO was fair at best for TV or Movies and my experience is the M-975 does it much better. I would forget to shut everything off at night and come in to find the sync off to the point of laughable. If anything got firmware over night everything setting wise was out the window and had to start all over.

Life is much simpler now

I had not checked the AVS thread in a while. It now runs 686 pages. I am not sure how you find anything specific in a thread that long.

When using all of the analog connections it may well be awesome. When using only the R L stereo out the BDP-103 does not down mix well.

I would guess that connected fully through the RCA's that the results would be as good as now or better.

I have the BDP-83 and I think it is the best player I have ever used. I have not read a single review that has not lauded the BDP-83 and any of its successors. Every review I have read about the 103 is stellar and it is likely the next player for me. I have used the analog outputs on my 83 along with the optical with great results so I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about the OPPOs performance.

Why wouldn't I be able to use a 7.1 or in my case a 6.1 configuration with the OPPO93 and the Outlaw 975?

Why wouldn't I be able to use 7.1 or in my case a 6.1 configuration with the Oppo93 and the Outlaw975?

You can use 7.1 via HDMI but not the 7.1 analog outputs from the OPPO as the 975 does not have the corresponding analog inputs.

Thanks XM, so I will just be using an HDMI cable between the Oppo93 and the Outlaw975 for both Audio and video, correct.

Yes that will give the best performance.

Thank you.

Based on what I am experiencing here you should be quite happy with the BDP-93, M-975 combination connected via HDMI.

The one thing I have not tried but plan to is running analog out R & L only for the Pure Audio Mode. I am thinking I can go in through the AUX on the Outlaw unit separating the OPPO from its normal HDMI connection.

Use the HDMI connection for disks and network media playback and then using the AUX I can have the Pure Audio Mode without changing connections. Hope this makes sense

Understand.
What I did not understand is since the 975 has 7.1 outputs as the 990 why would I not get the same results?

I forget that I have owned mine since day one so have gone through the full evolution newcomers to the BDP-103 have missed. I would have to check the receipt for the 103 for the exact date but I took delivery of mine in November 2012. They had their teething pains.

As far as the DownMix modes of the BDP-103 (and 105 in some cases) OPPO agrees with me. If you review the firmware update history for the units you will find a large number dealing specifically with audio decoding issues.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OPPO+BDP-103+downmix+issues&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Here are some quick links on the topic with several pieces directly from OPPO digital.

I think the OPPO is a great player and recommend one to any of my friends that are in the market for this type machine. All of that said it does not walk on water so in that regard we do disagree.

The 975 7.1 outputs are to feed to an amp and a subwoofer. The 990 has those and also 7.1 inputs which are analog. I had my OPPO connected to the 990 via the analog inputs because the 990 does not have HDMI. In your case you would connect the OPPO via HDMI to the 975 using one of its inputs probably BD. Then you connect the 975 outputs to the input of your amplifier(s) for as many channels you are using (6.1).

There are a lot of reasons to choose a specific player over another. Lexicon chose to repackage the BDP-83 in a different box and sell it for $3000 more than OPPO did. This slick marketing move was discovered rather quickly and says a lot about what the industry thinks of the OPPO products. I just sent my 5 year old BDP-83 back to OPPO for a repair of the disc loader tray because it would not open. OPPO told me of this issue on their website and when I requested an RMA it was issued 4 hours later. The player was out of service for about 3 weeks and when it returned it was repaired, cleaned and the latest firmware was installed. It arrived looking brand new in new packaging. The totsl cost to me was $40 for shipping. Not only did they repair it for free they shipped it back to me at no cost. This is the 4th firmware version I have installed in it and all were super smooth installs with no issues which actually took less than 30 minutes. I am sure the BDP-103 has had a lot of firmware changes including at least one that fundamentally changed the players performance for the better. I would like to hear about any other company or gear that has this much support more than 4 years after it warranty expired and gets the kind of reviews the OPPO gear gets. We have all heard the horror stories about other manufacturers support for their equipment once they have cashed the check and for that reason my next player will definitely be an OPPO product whether it is the BDP-103D or the next version.

I apologize if the conversation between me and XM confused things. I think you will see improved results running HDMI from your OPPO to the M-975. Analog out of the M-975 to your amplifiers/subs just as before.

I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on any differences. I find the M-975 and OPPO to be an impressive combination.

Sorry for hijacking your thread. Back to the original question, the 975/7700 combo will be as good or better than the 990/7700 combo and much more flexible because of the HDMI interface.

You replied at the same time I was typing so we overlapped on this one. Outlaw gear paired up with Outlaw gear should be as happy as it gets.

You are correct XM that the customer service at OPPO is outstanding by any measure. I saw the deal with Lexicon when it happened and thought it was hysterical. I know a guy who designed equalizers and custom notch filters back in the 70's who talked about companies ripping one another off as a regular course but to just repackage one into another is over the top.

A whole four firmware updates without issue? Wow. Sorry for being snarky as that is never polite but you need to stop reading reviews and start hitting the tech papers. The BDP-103/105 has now had 22 firmware updates counting betas. The last one from October of last year can be found here.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OPPO+BDP-103+downmix+issues&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

If you look at the list of addressed items you will find one offering anything like a new feature. Everything else is to fix a customer reported issue. I pre ordered and have had mine since November of 2012 so have gone through every single update. Many offer new features and improvements to function or compatibility. Others have shot it right in the ass requiring full resets. It can be argued the majority of this sort of thing should be in the past and I think for the most part it is but there have been issues. I use mine primarily as a network hub and can assure you there are format and decoding issues associated with file types as well as source input. There is a HDMI limitation relating to inputs that could be a deal breaker for some users who might wish to stream high def media in such a way. Same for the USB.

It has not been all Rainbows and Roses. You are also correct when you say different users have different reasons for buying a certain unit. If a persons main requirements are DVD/BlueRay CD/SACD then any OPPO model would be an excellent choice connected however the user wished. If networking is in your future there have been and still are issues and limitations that can matter. All I am trying to say is be informed.

Can't comment on the networking/streaming aspects of any of the OPPO players. My point was that of all the players out there, how many would get that kind of support and how many are as capable as the OPPO units. If the goal of the player is to be the best disc player then I think the OPPO has them beat. I will agree that when you get out on the leading edge of what the player can do it may not meet every one of the goals. There are still very few players that even attempt to do all the OPPOs do. I would like to see the number of complaints registered with OPPO in comparison with the number of times they fixed an issue which only a few users experienced because they were on the leading edge. Throw out the firmware updates for discs that had the DRM mods after the player was issued.

Did OPPO do the same type of beta testing on the 103/105 that they did on the 83. They basically crowdsourced the beta on the 83 for a few months with 50 or so early adopters.

Not really quite accurate. Oppo has a pretty active volunteer beta testing group that's been going since they made DVD players. The "early adopter" program was a way to invite people to try the BDP-83 and help work out bugs, but the same beta testing process has been done on all their players. Firmware updates are also run through the beta group first, and many don't make it out.

You need to figure it out or you will be buying gear without knowing why. With the sole exception of the analog out to the amp/speaker section every connection in a current system should be digital. My connecting from the BDP-103 to the M-975 via HDMI is a network connection.

Never stack DAC's and in the digital age there is no reason to do so. Your BDP-83 may have had DAC's on the brain while the BDP-103 (the cheap one) figured the buyer understood the difference and knew they had a processor that could pick up the difference.

You defend OPPO for all the wrong reasons and you do not understand why.

Rubbersoul you will find the M-975 to be a big time upgrade. It is a great unit. Buy the B Stock and know you are covered by the best support in the business.

Outlaw units seem to suffer the occasional control software fart but the company deals with it and never place blame on the customer.

I can't comment on the streaming aspects because I live in an area where streaming is not an option and I do not need to figure it out. My defense of OPPO products is strictly based on the gear I own and how I use it and their response when I need a repair. While you may desire to use all digital in your current system, some of us have large collections of analog source material and would rather not spend more $$$ to get our music and in some cases video played.