Upgrade to 975 or no?

Afternoon all. Here is the situation. I had recently bought a Yamaha Aventage 1030 receiver to drive my Klipsch RF82's and RC62 and Polk Rt800i rears. They sent me 2 of these receivers on accident and upon calling them 3 times, they never issued a call tag to pick it up. It has been 4 months now, so I sold it to a friend for about $100 less than what I paid for it. I found a good deal on a used 1 year old 7500 and snagged that up (glad I did) I am currently using it as a pre-amp for my 7500 and was wondering would it be beneficial to sell it and get the 975? Are the DAC's and video processing better? Any insight is much appreciated!

Your post was a bit confusing. What is the make and model of the preamp you are using now?

It's really not confusing at all Nancy.

In his first five sentences, he is basically bragging about Yamaha shipping him two 1030 receivers in error, and only charging him for one. He sold the extra Yamaha receiver to a friend, basically getting the one he kept for next to nothing.

Now he wants to know if the Outlaw 975 could best the Yamaha 1030 as a video and audio processor, with the 7500 providing the power.

Jim, I was not bragging thank you, I was merely explaining the situation with my pre amp/receiver. I tried to get them to send a call tag to pick it up. You can save the sanctimonious disposition.

If it's this one:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_022RXA1030/Yamaha-AVENTAGE-RX-A1030.html

I wouldn't consider the 975 to be an upgrade at all. I'd stick with what you have and definitely use the 7500 for amplification.

Best,

Thanks for a reasonable response. I appreciate it. Just didn't want for people to ask why I was upgrading from the Yamaha to anything else

I would definitely stick with the Yamaha. Using the 7500 for the main amps you could set it up for 9 channels if you wanted or bi-amp your mains and go with seven. I love Outlaw but the 975 is not comparable to the Yamaha as far as features and it doesn't have an amp.

How would the sound quality compare on the 975 to the Yamaha?
I have an rx-z1 that I was considering replacing with the 975/7125 combo. But I don't want to sacrifice much in the way of sound quality. Features I don't care so much about as I don't use 90 percent of them anyways.

We have a 30 day in home trial. That is the only way you will know for sure if the Outlaw combo will sound good to you. If you decide to return the units, all you will be out of pocket is the outbound shipping.

That way you can hear it in your own room with your own speakers.

I suspect (and of course I work here)... that you will LOVE the sound of the 975

Thanks for the reply Nancy!
What current Yamaha model would you rate the sound of the 975/7125 as being comparable to?

Tidan, you should do a quick search online for reviews of the 975. It won't take many readings to convince you to at least audition it. The vast majority I've read (both "big names" and more independent types) have all compared it favorably to units costing as much as three times more and beyond. On a personal note, we're using the 975/7125 combo at home and I can say it sounds amazing to us no matter what we play through it, be it movies or music.

Thanks Owl!
My eyes are tired from so much reading....I've been scouring forums, professional reviews, amazon reviews, etc....LOL!
And yes, they get some great reviews for sure!
I just despise buyers remorse from not making a good decision to begin with, and filling the footsteps of my current Yamaha Z1 is no easy feat. I tried a Pioneer Elite, and while its sound would be appeasing if I hadn't listened to my Z1 for so long, it definitely falls short in detail and realism relative to the Z1. So I don't want to take that big of a step down in sound quality but at the same time don't want to spend 3k again on the unit.
If the 975/7125 will fill those shoes then I'd definitly be interested in trying it out...not to mention I really like Outlaws honesty and real-life power measurements for their amps.

Direct comparison is the only way you will know for sure. Like Nancy said, the outbound shipping is your only risk. Not much buyers remorse from that.

How about a comparison between the 975/7125 to a newer yamaha such as the rx-a2020 or rx-a3020?

I supplanted my Yamaha RX-V2600 with the 975/7075 combo. It was my first venture into the world of separates. The difference for me and my wife, was night and day. The audio sounded much clearer, in that the dialogue is much more distinguishable in both movies and music. I did not use the pre-outs connected to the 7075 before I made the switch though. So I'm not sure how the RX-V2600 would sound as a preamp coupled with the 7075.

Helson: Thats good news! So the 975/7075 combo sounded as good or better than your yamaha but you aren't sure if the improvement was due to the 975 or the 7075 if I'm understanding you correctly?
Either way, if I order one I'll probably get the 975/7125 combo - and if it sounds as good as my Z1 I'd be stoked!

Yes, that's right. I wasn't swapping out the Yamaha for any comparison sake. But I did notice the difference with, at least, separates.

If you pull the trigger on the 975/7125, be sure the check back in with the saloon here and let us know what you think, Tidan! I'm sure there's others with similar situations that would like to see how your comparison turns out. Also, some of us are just curious and want to know.

Okay, been running the 975/7125 and have a few observations to share...
To start, the good:
In multichannel mode the sound quality is on par with my older 3000 dollar flagship reciever, the Yamaha RX-Z1. Somewhat different sounding in certain areas, but not neccessarily worse. Overall, more similarities than differences. However, in stereo the 975 was substantially better IMO! Broad sound stage, clear without being bright, and filled the room almost as if it was in multichannel mode. In fact, I got up several times to verify there was no sound coming from the surrounds/rears. Very impressive!
The setup menu I found to be very nice. I don't need a bunch of fancy graphics and the like. Its basic, easy to navigate, and fully functional.
The amplifier is fantastic - loads more power than any reciever I've used.
Outlaws costumer service is fantastic! Far better than that of Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer Elite, etc...in my experience.

Now, the things I think could be improved:
There are a few functional characteristics that I found challenging.
1. There is a 'pop' sound thru the speakers when I turn the unit on. It isn't loud persay, but a bit undignified for a modern day unit.
2. When I am using my HTPC I had to disable the menu sounds entirely as the decoder would switch to 'lock' mode and intermittantly mute menu sounds.
3. If I fast forward a video on my htpc, it would briefly playback raw bitstream noise which was very concerning - as many know, it is a harsh sound that can damage speakers if the volume is up.
4. The front panel display is reminiscent of a old texas instruments calculator. I found it very difficult if not impossible to read from a distance. So every time I switched sources or music formats, I had to walk up to the unit and press the surround mode button on the remote whilst watching the scrolling display to make sure it was the surround mode I wanted.
5. The unit didn't seem to save each inputs surround mode settings so anytime I switched inputs I had to repeatedly click thru the formats to find the one I normally use for that source. As stated in no. 4, everytime I had to do this I was required to walk up to the units display panel.
6. Speaker volume setting increments are in a full db instead of .5 db. I found it difficult to get the exact balance - though this is not a deal breaker as you can get close enough. I just ran the surrounds a half db quiter than they called for.
7. No custom naming for inputs. This isn't a deal breaker either, but it sure would be nice to know which input is which by custom name.

Overall I rate the sound quality high, but the seemingly archaic switching and display proved to be unbecoming of a modern day processor. If you aren't using a HTPC then you may not experience the inadaquecies I did, in which case I'd highly recommend this unit.
The amplifier blows away the amp section of my Z1 and other recievers I've been demoing. Just no comparison in its ability to create authority in the sound and confidence that you will NOT run out of power playing the most dynamic and loud movies and music.

I agree with you about the custom naming limitation. I'd like to be able to rename them a bit, or at least pick from a longer pre-existing list of choices. Something that allows for multiples of the same type would be great. We have two game systems, a CD player, Roku box, and a HTPC hooked up so it's a little bit of a stretch matching a couple of those items up. Not a deal breaker, but it'd be a nice little touch of convenience.

I also notice the popping sound during start up. However, even if I left it up loud, the pop is pretty low key so it isn't anything I've fretted over.

Our HTPC doesn't have any of the problems you mentioned, though. I'm assuming you were using this previously with your Yamaha and didn't have any issues so not really sure what's happening there. Or did you change the output type/connection? Could be something in the PC if that's the case.

I was able to get my levels right on with the one db increments so I guess it's pretty subjective to the listening space how big of a deal that is.

I actually like the display. It's simple and easy for me to read from my seating position. Of course, I'm only about eight feet away. It's also not a glaringly bright beacon that draws my eye from the TV. For me, they got that just right.

I feel that Outlaw got a whole lot more right than wrong on the 975. I can't complain at all about its performance, especially at this price point. There's little things (like the input limits) that I wouldn't mind improving, but it's really pretty nit-picky stuff; nice to have but not show stoppers by any stretch.

Sounds like you're happy overall so far, though?

As for the 7125, I agree wholeheartedly. I grabbed ours a few years ago and added it to my receiver in preparation for moving to separates. It's been a workhorse and doesn't show any signs of slowing down.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Be sure and keep us updated if you find other things to enjoy or condemn.

My HTPC didn't have any issues with my Z1 nor my Pioneer Elite nor the rx-a2030 I'm demoing along side the outlaw.
The display is very difficult for me to read but I do sit further away than you. I'm around 14.5 feet.
I'm happy with the sound quality and find it comparable to my older Z1, better than my Pioneer Elite, and on par with the rx-a2030 I'm demoing. But the power amplification is far better on the outlaw combo.
I'm a little torn between the rx-a2030 and the 975/7125 combo. The 2030 has none of the functional caveats the 975 has, has equal sound quality(IMO), but less power. And both are about the same price for me.
I'd like to stick with the Outlaw, but I'm very particular about things working a certain way.

Sounds like the 2030 might be a better fit for you right now, then. You don't want something that's going to annoy you every time you try to use it.

On the other hand, if those things don't really annoy you that much, the separates path gives you a lot more options for upgrading in the future.

Thats the conundrum I'm trying to solve right now.
The outlaw power amp is far superior IMO than the yamaha, but the functional limitations of the 975 for my purposes are a bit of a concern. Very unfortunate as I'd really like to keep the outlaw combo. But as you pointed out, I noticed myself not using it much as those issues did annoy me.

I thought about keeping the power amp and using the 2030 as a pre/pro, but then I'm way over my estimated budget of 1500.00.

It's nice to have options. You could go with the rx-a2030 with the intent that, when budget permits, you upgrade your amplification to the Outlaw 7125 and send the signal from the rx-a2030 pre-outs to the 7125. The 7125 is a nice amplifier. The other path would be the reverse, where you get the 975/7125 combo then swap-out your processor. Only you know how to weigh the trade-offs involved and whether the issues would keep you from using your system as frequently--I went through something similar recently.

Rob

Those suggestions are in line with what I've been thinking. I fear keeping the 975 will lead to frustration as I have perfectionist tastes...on a fast-food budget. I don't see any work arounds for the primary issues I have with the unit...cannot change the display to suit my needs and doubt there is a fix for the periodic bitstream raw playback.

What was the desicion you were faced with and what did you end up deciding on?

If you become too frustrated to use your system then you should definitely choose a different path. Given that you like the 7125 have you thought about a different processor with outputs that isn't as pricey as the Yamaha.

Yeah, I've thought quite a bit about it, but I don't have many options in my budget. I considered the marantz 7701, but reviews I read and people I talked to said the rx-a2030 sounded better - and going the marantz route would put me way over budget, yet possibly yield less sound quality than the yamaha route. I don't know of any other processors that would fit the role?!

I assume the RX-Z1 has analog inputs. Have you thought about getting a bluray player such as the OPPO 103 which would provide all the new sound codecs and keep using the Z1 until you find a processor within your budget. It will depend highly on the use for your system b ut I assume the Z1 has no sound deficiency and you just want to upgrade the video processing and get the new codecs.

That would be an option except the center channel amp began having problems fading in and out...which is what started this search for a replacement. Otherwise I probably would have just stayed with the Z1 and dealt with the lack of HDMI inputs and formats in a different manner. The pre-amp section works fine, and I did consider using it as a pre with the outlaw 7125 but after using newer equipment the last few weeks I'm enjoying having something that will playback DTS master, DDHD, etc...

Have you looked at any of the Onkyo processors as a bridge to beyond? The TX-NR727 looks like it might be priced right.

That unit looks like it has good or comparable DACS to my old Z1, but I've heard too many bad things lately about Onkyo reliability. I definitely don't want to take a step down or back from my flagship reciever (Z1).

As a tempoaray solution I think the Onkyo will beat the 975 for your needs right now.

Thanks Xenon, I'll consider it.
Please keep the suggestions coming! I'd really like to stick with the Outlaw stuff as much as I can...even if its just the amp at this point...until they release a 975 replacement or additional model which I hope is in the not too distant future!