AV7005, Oppo 103 and Epson PJ

Hey guys,

I changing out some gear in the next week or so and wanted some much needed advice. Pullout out my old 990 pre/pro and Pioneer BDP51 Blu Ray player and older Panny AX100 PJ. I use a Outlaw 7700 amp which is remaining.

New equipment going in, Epson 5020UB PJ, Oppo 103 and Marantz AV7005. I run 5 Klipch speakers older KLF series, 2 sunfire subs. I am going to run the 7.1 from Oppo to the Marantz. Just wondering;

Some basic settings to start with? Any help would be appreciated, suggestions etc. Thanks much in advance.

I would really like to hear what you think of the AV7005...I have been thinking of the same swap (I have 990/7500) I recently purchased an Oppo BDP-103;I have it connected to the 990 via 7.1 analog outputs, HDMI out directly to the Samsung Plasma. The sound is fantastic, i.e., BluRay movies, and especially SACD's. Video is great and, also, all streaming services are available and nice to have....

In the Oppo speaker configuration menu, I set all speakers to large, 7.1 down mix (I also have a B&K ST202 2-channel amp hooked up to my 990, for my rear surrounds). I don't know if that is proper setup for 7.1 analog, but remember reading online somewhere that that would be best way to do it....I would assume that the 990 would take care of bass management.

You may find good info at AVS Forum in the Oppo BDP-103 users thread.

Going to have it all set up in a few days I hope, depending on time and I will report back some settings. Thanks. Was hoping to find someone to give me settings to start with.

Good luck with the new "toys"...
It will be interesting to see how the AV7005 compares to the performance you had with the 990. I think you will like the changes when you are through with the setup.

I just purchased the AV7005, which arrived today and have an OPPO 103 and the Outlaw 7700. I replaced my Poineer Elite reciever (sorry didn't own a 990) with this unit and I can tell you after setting it up "what a difference". Not that the Pio was bad but it wasn't anywhere as clear and clean sounding as the AV7005. Trust me you're going to love this setup and I say that after only spending 8 hours with it! Even the wife noticed the clarity, as she called it "crystal clear". And great dynamics too! Again my Pio was very good here also but the added clarity is a home run!

Some things I noticed. In order to use the on-screen overlay you have to use the video conversion feature in the AV7005, being anchor bay it ain't too bad but the new OPPO 103 is better...this isn't an issue with my PVR or HTPC as I use this feature anyways. Without it you still get on screen but it's not overlay as it blanks the screen to see the text. But you need video conversion to see the volume on-screen. I also noticed if you pause the OPPO for more than a few minutes then press play the video continues but there is no audio, I have an email into Outlaw about this issue. I found if you reselect the HDMI input the audio works again. The wife gets up in the middle of movies alot so I use the pause more than most, YMMV.

As for this upgrade, I say "don't hesitate"! You'll be glad you did, I know I am

Just noticed I didn't update my signature...all good now.

Sorry for my eariler gush but...I really like the new setup!

I also tried the analog outs from the OPPO 103 vs the HDMI but couldn't really tell any difference...as long as you don't use Audessey with HDMI. Then there is a difference, you may like it or not, most people don't with music. The OPPO 105 has much better analogs for music.

As for setting use the following, a tape measure and an SPL meter...here you can run Audessey then use the measurements, note the subs are usually farther away than reality, so you'll need to measure these for the analog setup. Make sure you set all you speakers to "small" and crossovers to 1 octave higher than your speakers are rated, ie: if they say 40 to 20k then between 60 and 80 for your crossover....this will give you a good blend for bass. Once you have your speaker measured to the nearest .1 ft (from your listening position) use the spl meter to equal the other speakers to the front left speaker in volume. Do the same with your subs except don't set each to the same volume as the rest. Here you need to sum them, usually about - 3 or -4 bd each (to left front) will get you close. After that sit back and enjoy your music.

Zuter-

Thanks for your posts...Good to hear the great report. Have you noticed any hum from your Outlaw amp with the AV7005? I have seen a few instances where people have had hum/ground loop issues with the Outlaw 7700 or 7500 amps....I think it is mostly due to isolated conditions with the users setup location/home or wiring conditions. this has been one of the drawbacks that have made me sit on my decision for a while....

If you are careful with your connections and have a good common ground you won't have any ground loop problems. I have the 7125 and 7500 and have reconfigured them several times in and out of my system. They are both dead quiet.

My 990/7500 system is also dead quiet 99% of the time, also...as noted in some other posts, that other 1%, I believe is from a source (power grid/distribution CO.)out of my control. I went thru the gambit with Outlaw support back when I first purchased equip., never could figure it out. It usually happens right around "supper time"; don't do much listening then, anyways.

As an aside, I don't use any power conditioning (wonder if it would help?), just high caliber surge protection.

I find each device has a slight hum but it is dead quiet from my seating position. The only hum I notice is when I'm right next to the equipment. This is no different from my old setup. The hum of each device is very soft, ie: HTPC is the loudest due to fans but I installed 7.5 db fans, passive cooling for CPU and video and replaced the PS with a very low db rating.

I don't use line conditioners either, only a UPS for all devices. I find addressing surges and (better) no or low voltage conditions, which are far more harmful to electronics than surges, the right way for my situation. Just make sure the UPS is designed to regulate voltage at a specific level, not all UPS's are created equal.

In loud hum situations you'd need to do far more than a line conditioner or a good UPS anyways. But then you'd notice this with most electronics in your home already. There are great resources here and elsewhere to address this problem. However if you have no issues currently (pun intended ) I wouldn't think this is isolated to the 7500 or 7700 amps, rather they're exposing your existing wiring issues.

I have both of my amps plugged into APC-H15 power conditioner/voltage regulator/surge protectors. I had a lightning strike take out my old Sony center channel and went to the APCs after that. I only use 5 channels of my 7125 and a DLP TV so the 1500 watts are enough. My 7500 is in a system without a display and only 4 channels are being used. The APCs provide me with the "common ground" which is vital to eliminating that hum. I also have my subs plugged into the APCs for lightning protection. I am not a big proponent of crediting power conditioning for better sound but I did get almost 10000 hours out of my first DLP projector bulb.

Hey guys, I have installed mostly all my equipment back. I run (2) Monster HTS 3500 MKii, 7700 amp, Marantz AV7005, Oppo 103, Optimum cable box, Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Sony ES CD player and a DVD/VCR burner. Epson 5020 PJ, Stewart electric screen and 2 sunfire JR subs with all Klipch speakers, KLF 20 line. With everything on, system is quiet.

I flip on the Marantz 7005 and the worst hum comes out of all speakers. It is not a steady hum. It changes pitches, softer, louder etc. I didn't have time to do anything else yet. Ugh.

Start disconnecting peripheral equipment one piece at a time, then turn the system on at low volume in between disconnects, and see if you can find out what piece is causing the problem. Make sure you disconnect all of the cables/wires for each piece of equipment including power/signal/grounds and any other input to the system from that piece. Many times the cable box coax is the problem and no-one disconnects it until last. Alternately, disconnect everything from the AV7005 and leave it connected to the amp. Turn it on to make sure its not the AV7005 and then install one piece at a time, turning the system on to check if that piece works. You have a lot of equipment connected and you probably have something connected to the wrong place

I will try when I get home tonight but I have double checked all wiries and fired up each piece of equipment one at a time to make sure it works, good picture and sound from each. I am running balanced connects from my 7700 to my 7005.

Thanks for the help.

I'd say that's worth the price alone



If you tried each piece in turn, when did you notice the hum? Are you routing all your components through the 7005 or just a select few?

If you follow XenonMan's advice, the part about the cable box first hopefully does the trick! If not then I'd opt for his "alternate" method. Chances are you'll strip the whole system before you get to the problem anyways. Quicker to start from scatch.

I got those APC H-15 for $99.00 each back when Amazon had a sale. I bought the first one and as soon as I took it out of the box and realized the quality construction I ordered the second. Their combined cost is less than the replacement bulb.

$318 each now...

The next week they were triple what I paid. A friend told me about the deal and it went my way. The funny thing was they were in a silver finish vice black. The black ones never went on sale as far as I know.

Got home too late to do anything, but...I did turn everthing on except the Marantz 7005. With the amp on and everthing still wired up, no noise at all. Turn on the Marantz and all 5 speakers, (not subs) start humming, pitch changes a bit if you listen.

Also with everything on, including the Marantz, all wired, I pull the power plug out of the back of the Oppo and the noise gets louder.

Also I must be crazy but in my opinion playing a blu ray with my older Pioneer BDP51 seemed sharper then the new Oppo? Can't be...

More testing tonight. Thanks.

Without the Marantz powered there is no path for the hum/noise to get to the amp. Let us know what you find when everything is disconnected with the Marantz on and connected to the amp. I would then start connecting my most valuable equipment in order to figure out that the problem was not major $$$. Have you been able to do the setup with the Marantz yet? I would think the OPPO will be a better player based on the reviews I have seen and the performance of my BDP-83. I would also be careful disconnecting the power using the cord as it is not nearly as clean a disconnect as using the switch. Remember the old medical axiom "first, do no harm". If you want to ship the BDP-103 to me I will do some extensive testing on it and let you know what I find.

Brian-

As XenonMan states, just have the amp powered on and the AV7005 powered on; also connected to each, by RCA's or XLR's; NO OTHER EQUIPMENT connected to the Amp/Preamp...then connect your Optimum cable box by way of HDMI (if that is your connection type); if no hum, then POWER ON the cable box...see if you have hum, i.e., if so, its the ground on your cable TV system/hookup. By doing a lot of research on line, it seems that that (cable, DIRECTV receivers) is usually the culprit for ground loop hum.....

Since you have two power supply/surge units Make sure they are the same ground plane. You could start by plugging the AV7005 and the 7700 into the same unit if not already.

Hey guys, I had to run a new HDMI cable for the new PJ. This took away a good amount of the hum. It is still too loud for me. I haven't had a chance to do anymore work on the system. I did run a ground from my grounding cable on my cold water pipe to the amp, the marantz with no change. Also ran a ground from both my monster power centers, no change.

What do you guys think of a ground loop eliminator like the ones they sell at Radio Shack? Just wondering?

Thanks again.

I don't know about the RadioShack thing...but go here for a wealth of information about ground loops and fixing such....

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/connec...em-hum-and-buzz

Hey Jmacari, great article, thanks much for the link. I started reading it and stopped home for lunch and pulled the cable from my Optimum on line off the back of the Monster power center, (I have it running in and out of that) and wham, no more buzz, silent, put in back in and the noise comes right back.

Thanks. Now I just will read some more and figure out out to make the repair. Thanks!!!!

Any suggestions on where to start?

Thanks to all of you guys again.

Brian-

I have DIRECTV; I have a ground rod/wire right next to where the cable from the dish goes into the house; that ground wire is tied into one of the couplers/ground block that connects the dish coax before it goes into the house...that ground rod/wire (that is in ground )has been there for years (used to ground Cable TV before I bought house). That DIRECTV coax then goes into a surge protector (it has two coax connections-also used for over-the-air rooftop antenna coax for local channels), then out to my DIRECTV DVR....

I have never had any amp/preamp related hum because of DIRECTV (or my roof top antenna)...I would assume because everything is grounded properly.

If you still have problems, maybe look into that Jenson CATV ISOLATOR MODEL VRD-1FF unit they mention in the article.

By the way, how do you like the AV7005? Better than what you had before? Sound-wise (CD's, vinyl, etc) is it nice?

I have not played with it long enough to say yet. I have not even gone into the settings, just out of the box so far and have not even run it off the 5.1 analog, just digital. No adjustments to the Oppo 103 yet either, just played it out of the box.

I played a few BD and the sound was nice, except for the gound loop hum, hah. It sounded good but so did the Outlaw 990. I will keep you posted as this weekend I will be going into the set up menu's and start to make adjustmens.

Thanks for the help.

Brian

Hey guys, received the Jennson transformer, followed instructions, installed it last night. All the noise has left my system except a very small buzz coming from my right side surround speaker. I am running a 5.2 set up. When no music or a movie is playing you can hear it if you get within 5 feet or so. With sound on it is hard to hear unless you put your ear right up to it. It still buzzes even when the cable is not on the system so it is not from the cable TV.

Hmmm, anyone have any ideas on where to start with this?

Thanks.

Brian

Start with swapping the speakers and see if it follows the speaker. Then start looking at the cables feeding that channel. Make sure they are not lying close to and in parallel with a power cable somewhere. Try swapping cables and speaker wires from one one surround speaker to the other and see if it follows the cable or speaker wires. If the noise is only in one channel and it is not the speaker or the cables that leaves the amp.

Switch speakers, i.e., try the left surround speaker on the right side (replace the one there now) and see if it still "buzzes" on the right side surround channel, if it does then it isn't the speaker...then check the speaker cable or the interconnect for that channel.....or maybe the polarity for the speaker connection??

Update. Finally tied everything in. New PJ mounted, almost all the buzzing gone, working on the last buzz in the rear speaker. Ran my new monoprice HDMI 60 foot redmere cable. Start it all up, loud buzz back again. I pull the 60 foot HDMI out of the PJ, noise gone. I knew this might happen as I ran the HDMI (no choice) next to a ton a wiring. It must be picking up the noise from that.

UGH. Looking now at ways to move it, shield it or add something to stop the buzzing. Some ferrite cores to add, one on each end of the HDMI cable. Not sure if this will work.

Looking at ways to run the cable away from the electric lines, lights etc. It also passes the houses ground wire from the panel to the cold water pipe.

Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.

Wow, that's a long HDMI run, you must have a very large room. If you were to run the cable in a metal pipe, what electricians call EMT, this would shield it, though it's probably not an option to install such piping. Another point is that if the HDMI cable crosses any wiring it should do so at a 90 degree angle.

Other than that, I wonder if a better cable might help. I bought a 35 ft length from Blue Jeans, though I don't know if they even recommend such a long HDMI.

A 60 foot run is bound to give you some issues. I think it is written in the HDMI law somewhere. Can you shorten the run? Get the cable at least a foot away from any power cables.

I also think pro installers use component video cabling for that long of a run; supposedly, nothing is lost in video display (don't know about 3D), i.e., component can do 1080p....

60 foot run does exceed the HDMI spec for maximum supported length (that limit is 15 meters, borrowed from the DVI spec that was meant for monitors plugged into desktop PCs). Component was used by installers for a long time because they knew how it worked and it was better behaved over long runs, but it won't do 1080p or 3D - plus it is being phased out of newer BD players (including the BDP-103 and BDP-105) - so I think even they have moved to HDMI now. I know some recent AV installs on college campus jobsites have been using HDMI. Besides, if the HDMI cable is having troubles with interference from power wiring, component will probably be even worse in that regard. The idea of adjusting the route to get away from or perpendicular to power wiring is probably the first priority.

Welcome back Gonk!! Glad to hear from you. Must be busy as hedoublehockeysticks.

Thanks guys, also posted on the AVS forum and here is what someone had said;

Assuming you are talking about the Redmere HDMI cable, that can't add noise as you describe to your system. Let me explain...

A group loop hum on a speaker would be 60Hz audio. That happens when the AC frequencies bleed into the audio. Other hum frequencies have similar beginnings.

The HDMI signal does not contain any analog audio. It is only digital. So, for the power line to cause an audible hum in the HDMI line, the AC interference would have to find the part of the HDMI bitstream that had the audio information, convert itself to digital, sum the newly created digital information with the bits that were already there, modify the encoding scheme so HDCP would pass and then repeat the process continuously. Obviously, this isn't going to happen and random bit errors do not produce a continuous hum (or even a hum).

However, I can give you a possible explanation. It is possible that by connecting up the HDMI cable, you've re-created a ground loop particularly if the ground is not the same where the Epson is plugged in versus the Marantz. To see if this is true, run a long AC cord from the Epson and plug it into the same AC socket as the Marantz. If the hum disappears then that is a likely explaination. Unfortunately, that would also mean that any HDMI cable would do the same thing.

A second possibility is that your speaker wire is now close to an AC transformer of some type and that is feeding back into the Marantz.

See what happens if you now remove the transformer that you just added. Unfortunately, these ground loops turn into science fair projects very quickly since they are hard to pin-down.

And he was RIGHT!!! Ran an extension cord over from the PJ to my power center which everything goes into, no more noise!!!

Sound is now perfect, picture is now perfect. I am going to make it more permanent. Not sure if I should make an extension cord out of romax or SJ cord, it will be approx. a 60 foot 120 volt run. RedMere Cable passes signal perfect including in 3D.

Sounds like a win. Just make sure you have enough ampacity on the circuit your are plugging the PJ into because they do draw some power.

Hey again guys,

Now this is what is going on!!!!

I have an XBox 360, Samsung cable box, PS3, Nintendo WII, Sony ES CD player, Oppo 103, Outlaw Audio 7700 amp, Toshiba 50 inch DLP TV, Epson 5020 and a Marantz AV7005 all running into 2 Panamax 5300's. The 3 new components are the Epson PJ, Oppo 103 and Marantz 7005 which I nstalled a few months ago. They replaced a panny PJ, Pioneer BDP51 and Outllaw 990 Pre. With the old system I never had anything more then a slight hum. Right before I added in the new components, the system started to hum louder. I didn't do anything about it as I knew I was changing some of the pieces so I would deal with it then, nothing new was done to the house.

I installed all the new equipment, all new cables, turned it on and the dam hum was still there. I pulled the cablebox in wire, hum gone. Purchased a Jennson transformer isolater, installed, hum gone. Great!! Next time i turned it one, hum came back, equal in all speakers, volume does not effect it, steady buzz. I started pulling wires trying to isolate it. When I pulled the PJ HDMI, buzz stopped. Someone on this forum asked me if the PJ was plugged into the Pannamax, it was not as it is on the other side of the room. I ran a cord over from the PJ to the Panamax and the hum stopped again. I then ran SJ cord 14/3 from the PJ to the Panamax, turned everything on, hum was back, this time in only the rear right speaker. I am running a 5.2 set up.

I pulled all the cables etc and couldn't find what was making the buzz. I switched the wire from one speaker to the other, the buzz followed, it was in that wire. At this point I was so pissed off I decided to run a dedicated 20 amp circuit from my panel to my componenets. Using 12-3 i ran the circuit with an isolated ground and used that type of recepticle. Plugged everything into that circuit, still buzzes from the rear right speaker.

I was playing around with the back of the Marantz 7005, I pulled out HDMI 2 cable which runs to the Toshiba TV, buzz still there, when I went to put it back in, I was off a little and the HDMI end was tapping the back of the 70005, I heard static and all of a sudden, bam, the buzz went quiet. I plugged back in the HDMI cable to HDMI out and the buzz was still gone. I shut down, turned it back on, buzz back, still out of the rear right surround speaker.

Again, I tap the cable to the back ot the Marantz, some static and the buzz goes quiet again. WTF!!! If the HDMI cable taps a back screw on the Marantz, the buzz stops also. Almost like a capacitor is discharging.

What is going one, can someone please help me on this one, I am at a loss here. Brand new 20 amp circuit, isolated ground, nothing on the line but my home theater, back right speaker buzzing kind of loud, then tap HDMI out 2 from Marantz, static then quiet???

I tried it with HDMI 1 out of the Marantz and nothing. This is the one to the PJ which is a Monoprice 60 foot Redmere cable. It is the only Redmere cable I am using.

Sorry post is so long, I tried to keep it as short as I could.

Thanks!!!!

Brian

Easy to understand your frustration and length of post to express it but HARD to figure out what circumstances have NEVER had intermittent "buzz from speaker" and which have resulted in that problem...

I suspect that you may have a fault in the case of the 7005 and/or the cable jacket. I know it sounds a little goofy but I have seen audio installers resort to literally layering the whole metal back panel of a PA amp with gaffers tape to prevent any electrical connections from getting shorted against the case... Not gonna say I would recommend going to such a length but if you can isolate this to just the one input you might try to cut a little template out of insulating electrician's tape so that it prevents any metal-to-metal contact...

The smooth vinyl products from 3M work well for this --

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/janito...66-100-per-case

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/janito...CFacWMgod_D8AMQ

Thanks but I am not sure I follow you here. Fault in the case? The unit is only a few months old. Should I return it and get another one? Why only the one speaker? Why when I touch the HDMI cable to the back does the hum go away and stay away until I turn it back on. Also if I turn it back on with the HDMI cable off, it still hums.

Check the back of the 7005 for any stray wires touching the case. You may have found the problem in that HDMI connector. One of the majors gripes about HDMI is the weakass connector they chose. Maybe it is not grounded correctly internally. I would write up all of your efforts so far and send the unit back for repair. I would be very careful disconnecting and reconnecting cables with the power on. Most of the signal cables you are dealing with are meant for very small voltages and a static discharge could be disastrous much less one from an energized source. When you say "bam" were you describing the sound or your astonishment like Emeril. A loud noise would be a bad thing.

Thanks, "bam" was my reaction as I have had it, hah. I just don't know where to begin again. Brand new 20 amp circuit with isolated ground, I was sure it would be pin drop quiet at this point. Also the 2 brand new Panamax 5300's. I am just so drained from all this. I just want to sit back and relax and enjoy my equipment, but this darn noise is killing me.