Hi folks,

I am interested to know what the differences are between the Outlaw Sub and the HSU sub. I ask because Dr. Hsu himself recommended I purchase two of the VTF-3 MK3's and place them behind my couch and recliner with the woofers firing toward my chair and couch. If I were to go with his suggestion that would cost me $1550 ($699 x 2 plus shipping). Whereas I can get two Pluses for $1199. At first glance on the Hsu website it looks almost the same as the LFM-1 Plus. But after further digging it appears there is a woofer on the side of the Hsu that is not visible until you view it with the turbo attachment.

I guess I'm trying to justify the added cost for the HSU's versus the Outlaw. Any feedback/experience with this would be much appreciated.

Hi,

The LFM-1 Plus is much closer to a HSU VTF-3 Mark 2. The main differences between the LFM-1 Plus and the VTF-3 mark 3 are:

1) Cabinet configuration. The VTF-3 has a larger cabinet, yielding a little over 1 Cubic Foot of additional volume inside the box.

2) Port location. The VTF-3 Mk. 3 has side firing ports vs. down firing ports on the LFM-1 Plus.

3) Port size. The VTF-3 Mk 3 has dual 4" ports vs, dual 3" ports, which provide about 80% more port area.

4) Driver location. The VTF-3 Mk3 driver is side mounted, simply because the wider ports are MUCH longer inside the cabinet and would not accomodate a bottom or front mounting.

I know I didn't answer your question, but here's my take: The HSU and the LFM-1 have similarly rated amps (350W), and similarly sized drivers (12") and are tuned to the same frequencies (18 and 25 Hz. HSU claims MUCH higher output levels of low bass thanks to the larger cabinet and ports. I don't own a VTF-3 Mk3 so I can't give any personal commentary.

Two VTF-3 Mk 3's will output a LOT of bass. You must have a pretty large space to fill if Dr. HSU recommended two VTF-3 Mk3's...

The comparisons between the VTF3 Mark 2 and Mark 3 I have heard (Very close comaprison to the LFM-1 Plus and VTF3 Mk-3) have been pretty consistent. You'll notice the difference most listening to content with lots of low bass at pretty high levels. That's where the larger ports pay off. I have heard users comment on port noise (described as 'chuffing' or flatulent sounds) with the VTF-3 Mark 2 at very high (reference and above) levels.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Good luck,

Hi Palmer,

Thanks for the info. Based on what you are stating it appears it is an apples to oranges comparison. They have similar ratings and amplification but after that they are two different animals. I didn't know the HSU changed designs from the VTF2 to the VTF3. It's hard to tell from the pics on HSU's website.

My room is not too big (3200 cubic feet) but I have several openings in my basement and I like my bass to be punch you in the gut kinda feel to it.

Thanks again for the help.

Also, for what it's worth, my understanding is that Outlaw went with the down-firing ports on the LFM's instead of the rear-firing orientation used by the HSU subs to avoid port noise (the "chuffing" that Palmer mentions).

My den is about the same size as your space, although it has only a couple standard doors opening into other spaces. For what it's worth, my lone LFM-1 packs quite a nice punch when I need it to. I shudder to think what a pair of LFM-1 Plusses configured for extension (port plug in) would do!

Thanks Gonk, that's right! I can say with confidence that I have never heard ANY port noise and I've played quite a bit of material with challenging bass at high volume after calibrating with my SMS-1. My main HT room is 2538 cubic feet with a 5.5 foot opening into an 853 cubic foot home office for a total of 3392 cu. ft.

My single LFM-1 Plus (Extension mode) has no trouble filling the space with quality bass.

There's a chart on the hsu site that rates their various subs by the size of a room they could fill:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/subwoofers.html

The ratings (1,2,3 and 4) are by cubic feet of volume. A single VTF3 Mark 2 is said to be appropriate for rooms up to 4500 Cu. ft. while a single Mark 3 is supposedly good up to 6000.

I agree with Gonk. Two LFM-1 Pluses should have no trouble filling your space with 'kick you in the gut' bass with the additional benefit of smoother response.

Ok guys, it sounds like I won't be missing too much with two pluses instead of the HSUs. I realize the HSU may pack a bigger punch but I do want my house to be standing after the LOTR scene with Sauron exploding.

Palmer - Do you run your plus plugged in extension mode? Is there much difference from plugged and unplugged?

I run mine in extension mode, I have yet to test it in output mode.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks I will be calibrating it with the SMS-1 in max output mode to see (and hopefully hear) how it compares with max extension... I'll post my impressions in this forum.

Cheers,
Tony

Two questions on the LFM-1 Plus:
1. How is it on really low music (not HT thuds) - e.g., pipe organ pedal notes below low C (32.7 Hz)?
2. How well would one mate with a pair of Magneplanar 1.6s (pretty good down to around 40 Hz)?

I really enjoy my LFM-1 Plus. I think it is a good sub more musical than thuddy. I returned an Aperion S-12 within the 30 day trial period because I thought it sounded boomy.

I have no experience with Magneplanar, but it works well with my Dahlquist DQ20's.

I'm of the same opinion, my LFM1-Plus is an excellent sub in my opinion. I is nothing if not versatile. While excellent for HT, with lots of headroom for BIG 'thuds', two of the first CD's I played to test it after calibration were the HSU test CD, which has some extremely low organ pedal notes and a CD of organ music I acquired a few years ago from a former regular on this forum. The LFM-1 handled the bottom end admirably. The LFM produced high SPL bass below my range of hearing (or so my meter told me). The bass I could hear (above 20Hz) sounded natural and clean.

I have no experience with Maggies but my SF Grand Piano Domus' are pretty good down to about 40Hz and this sub mates very well with them.