Outlaw Audio home shop products hideout news support about
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#31725 - 01/18/08 04:27 PM Want to upgrade speakers
Sweet Spot Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 204
Loc: NY, NY
Is it just me, or do other people here find the overall sound signature of the RR2150 pretty "warm" ? I'm usually always turning the treble control up to about 1 o'clock for most music, which is fine.. but I'm also trying to figure out if the source of this warmth isn't also because of the synergy of my components.

I have Energy C3 speakers, and they're not bad for what I paid... but I can't help but think that when I auditioned them a couple of years ago, that I was hearing more mid range. Of course it could have been the difference in room acoustics, and certainly the amp they were using, but as it stands now...when I go into an audio store and check some stuff out, I feel that I'm missing out on some "breathy-ness" and midrange, and I'm craving it.

I listened to two pair of speakers yesterday, which made a very good impression on me. One was a pair of Sonus Faber's, which are bookshelves (can't remember the model) and were discounted because they're being discontinued (now $3500) and the other was a pair of Monitor Audio RS6's.

The RS6's had a more full sound, which is logical because of the 3 way design, but the Sonus Faber's were so much more detailed ! However, I might also characterize them as being pretty colored, especially in the mid range area. But damn, those mids were pretty damned lush. Big price difference too... The RS6's are only $1000 msrp vs $3600

What I'd like to know is if anybody here has any experience with speakers that really compliment the warmth that I'm getting with my current setup ? Speakers that are neutral, but have some really nice midrange and decent bottom range.

The RS6's are floor standing speakers, and I think they do a pretty good job with soundstage and separation, but they're not the most detailed speakers I've heard. Then again, they're bi-wireable, but weren't set up as such.

I'm not opposed to getting a sub woofer, but I don't want to spend too much money. Another thing to note, is that we recently put down some carpet (shag type area rugs, semi plush) and I think that the carpet is perhaps dampening too much of the upper frequencies. At least, that's what I feel like. I keep the speakers about 2 feet from the wall, and 6 feet apart, aimed straight, not towed in.

I asked the guy at Harvey Audio if I could bring the 2150 in, and hook it up to the RS6's, to which he said would be cool. But it still won't be the same considering the room size and all. I guess i just want to know what all of your experiences have been with different speakers and their synergy with the 2150.

For now, I want to keep it under $1500 Whether it's with a sub or not.

Doug

Top
#31726 - 01/19/08 09:47 PM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
If you can accommodate floor-standing speakers with some space behind them take a look at Magneplanars. Either the MMG or the MG12 would be under your cost ceiling and they both got a "walks on water" review in a recent issue of The Absolute Sound. You can even try the MMG at home for 60 days free except for the freight. They sure made a believer out of me.
If your tastes require strong bass below about 45Hz or lots of "slam" you'll also want a good subwoofer, which you can couple to the MMG without breaking your cost ceiling. I understand the bass controls on the 2150 make it very easy.
One caution: the Maggies are not highly sensitive / efficient. They are 4-ohm speakers and need a high-current amplifier. The 2150 should be able to drive a pair of them to 110-db peaks, which is a bit more than a symphony conductor's ears get when the orchestra's playing fortissimo. Only you can decide if that's loud enough for you.

Top
#31727 - 01/19/08 10:14 PM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
lanion Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 161
is using the treble knob that bad??

I love using my RR2150 with my Totem Hawks, which I got for $1375 used -- but I ended up getting an LFM-2 to fill out the bottom end. I decided on the Hawks over the outlaw bookshelf speakers mostly on aesthetics.

Top
#31728 - 01/21/08 12:05 AM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
Sweet Spot Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 204
Loc: NY, NY
Quote:
Originally posted by psyprof1:
If you can accommodate floor-standing speakers with some space behind them take a look at Magneplanars. Either the MMG or the MG12 would be under your cost ceiling and they both got a "walks on water" review in a recent issue of The Absolute Sound. You can even try the MMG at home for 60 days free except for the freight. They sure made a believer out of me.
If your tastes require strong bass below about 45Hz or lots of "slam" you'll also want a good subwoofer, which you can couple to the MMG without breaking your cost ceiling. I understand the bass controls on the 2150 make it very easy.
One caution: the Maggies are not highly sensitive / efficient. They are 4-ohm speakers and need a high-current amplifier. The 2150 should be able to drive a pair of them to 110-db peaks, which is a bit more than a symphony conductor's ears get when the orchestra's playing fortissimo. Only you can decide if that's loud enough for you.
My only problem with the Maggies, is the very specific sweet spot. I do know how great magnaplanar speakers can sound, as I've auditioned more than a few, and love the signature they usually have. But once you even stand up, the imaging and sound stage deviates from what they were when you were in the sweet spot, and I would just find that too irritating, unless I had a dedicated listening room furnished with only acoustic treatments, and chairs. But that's not going to happen in an apartment.

@Lanion, nope. I don't mind the treble knob at all. In fact, it really does a good job at smoothing things out for me when I need that extra bit of upper range. I just have a feeling though, that the 2150 would like to be paired with a less warm sounding speaker, and with more midrange to boot. The Energy's can sound great with a good recording, but I'm missing the mid range that I desire, and I'm hoping it's not the fault of the 2150.

Top
#31729 - 01/21/08 12:46 AM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
chas Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 10/21/05
Posts: 142
Loc: Minnesota
The Ascend Acoustics Sierra may also be worth a look if you have an interest in a bookshelf. They are supposed to have excellent bass for a monitor, but would leave enough room in the budget for a decent sub if desired.

Top
#31730 - 01/21/08 01:07 AM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
Sweet Spot Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 204
Loc: NY, NY
I was looking at various reviews concerning the Magneplanar MG12's and could not find one mention of a negative remark with respect to how small the sweet spot is. I did of course read that placement and direction of set up is a bit finicky, but that is to be expected.

Wayne Garcia's review (Fi) really has me interested in them actually, Psyprof. There's a hifi shop in the City which sell them, so I"m going to give them a call to arrange an audition. I might even ask if I can bring the 2150. The price is very modest for such rave reviews and a planar speaker I think, so it might be worth checking out after all. Thanks !

@Chas... I don't know anymore. I'm finding myself feeling more comfortable with floor standing speakers at the moment, but your suggestion is dually noted. If only it were possible to audition every recommended speaker eh ?

Top
#31731 - 01/21/08 02:25 AM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
psyprof1 Offline
Desperado

Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 443
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA
Sweet Spot, I remember that Fi review very well - in fact that's what decided me on the 1.6QR's I'm listening to right now. As for the sweet spot, I agree about the change in tonality when one stands up - which would be less with MMG's because of their tipped-back position - but think the sound off-center is not too different from the sound of an actual orchestra from an off-center position. Too bad there aren't any true omnidirectional speakers available at anywhere near your price level (or mine, which is about the same). Enjoy whatever you end up with. BTW if you're feeling a bit adventurous take a look at www.nOrh.com.

Top
#31732 - 01/21/08 03:25 AM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
Sweet Spot Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 204
Loc: NY, NY
There's one other thing I'm concerned about Psy.. And that is the power factor. Everything I've been reading about Maggies, including the baby MG12's states that you can never have enough power, especially for peak transitions when listening at moderate volumes.

I just fear that with the maggies, I'll eventually want to get a better amp, then of course a good pre amp etc etc.. and the money never stops flowing yada yada. smile

this thread in particular has me wondering but of course I'll do more research.

Doug

Top
#31733 - 01/21/08 03:19 PM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
rru2s Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 39
At the risk of sounding cheap, consider the combination I recently purchased. If I understand you correctly, you want a speaker with a rich sounding midrange but also with a good soundstage anywhere in the listening room.

Well, my RR2150 is currently working really well with a pair of Polk Audio Monitor 70s. They have FOUR 6.5 inch speakers in each floorstanding cabinet, so talk about detailed midrange - it's great for vocals, acoustic guitar, saxophone, piano. In order to get the most out of the treble frequencies, for some recordings I have to boost the RR2150 to about 1:00 like another poster said. It varies from recording to recording. But I was listening to symbols last night and they sounded like they were right in the room with me, just amazing. The Polk Monitor 70s only have one 1-inch tweeter, but it has good detail for horns. Just be careful and don't blow them out accidentally.

I also added a sub to this system, and ended up with a Velodyne VRP1200, which is not the most powerful, but it is adequate for music only purposes, especially sweet with jazz and rock.

Just my 2 cents. I know you could spend a whole lot more, but the nice thing with this setup is I didn't even need a power amp because the monitor 70s are very efficient.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, the soundstage for these speakers is about 14 feet wide, great sound from anywhere in the room. They are narrow towers so the dispersion is unobstructed. For placement, they are off the ground about 15 inches, about 12 inches out from the back wall, about 12 inches in from the side walls, toe-in about 30 degrees, and about 14 feet apart, so the intersection of the center stage is about 16 feet into the room of my 25 foot by 15.5 foot living room.

It sounds as nice as my old 2.1 system with separates, which included a pair of classic Polk Model 10s, a 180wpc power amp, equalizer, and preamp.

Top
#31734 - 01/21/08 03:49 PM Re: Want to upgrade speakers
garthr Offline
Gunslinger

Registered: 08/04/06
Posts: 108
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sweet Spot:
[qb] Is it just me, or do other people here find the overall sound signature of the RR2150 pretty "warm" ? I'm usually always turning the treble control up to about 1 o'clock for most music, which is fine.. but I'm also trying to figure out if the source of this warmth isn't also because of the synergy of my components.


------------------------------------------
"warm" ..... no . pretty neutral . Yes, bass and treble controls, when done well, are our friend.
--------------------------------------------


I have Energy C3 speakers, and they're not bad for what I paid... but I can't help but think that when I auditioned them a couple of years ago, that I was hearing more mid range. Of course it could have been the difference in room acoustics, and certainly the amp they were using, but as it stands now...when I go into an audio store and check some stuff out, I feel that I'm missing out on some "breathy-ness" and midrange, and I'm craving it.


-------------------------------------------
Room acoustics play a huge role in how you hear what you hear. That's why in store auditions don't mean much . There are also so many variables in "how" you hear, that making sound consistent is impossible. The key is to enjoy the music for what it is, not dissect it for what it is not.
------------------------------------------


I listened to two pair of speakers yesterday, which made a very good impression on me. One was a pair of Sonus Faber's, which are bookshelves (can't remember the model) and were discounted because they're being discontinued (now $3500) and the other was a pair of Monitor Audio RS6's.

The RS6's had a more full sound, which is logical because of the 3 way design, but the Sonus Faber's were so much more detailed ! However, I might also characterize them as being pretty colored, especially in the mid range area. But damn, those mids were pretty damned lush. Big price difference too... The RS6's are only $1000 msrp vs $3600

What I'd like to know is if anybody here has any experience with speakers that really compliment the warmth that I'm getting with my current setup ? Speakers that are neutral, but have some really nice midrange and decent bottom range.

The RS6's are floor standing speakers, and I think they do a pretty good job with soundstage and separation, but they're not the most detailed speakers I've heard. Then again, they're bi-wireable, but weren't set up as such.


---------------------------------------
Again, in a studio you're not getting the sound you would in your own home .

Are your current speakers so bad, or do you have a case of upgrade-itis ? The latter is just a state of deficiency from your mind, and easily cured . There is always a better speaker , it never ends. The key is find satisfaction with what you do have. You bought your current speakers for "some" reason ..... yes ?
---------------------------------------------


I'm not opposed to getting a sub woofer, but I don't want to spend too much money. Another thing to note, is that we recently put down some carpet (shag type area rugs, semi plush) and I think that the carpet is perhaps dampening too much of the upper frequencies. At least, that's what I feel like. I keep the speakers about 2 feet from the wall, and 6 feet apart, aimed straight, not towed in.

I asked the guy at Harvey Audio if I could bring the 2150 in, and hook it up to the RS6's, to which he said would be cool. But it still won't be the same considering the room size and all. I guess i just want to know what all of your experiences have been with different speakers and their synergy with the 2150.


------------------------------------------
That's hard to say because everyone hears differently . One's passion is another's poison .
---------------------------------------------


For now, I want to keep it under $1500 Whether it's with a sub or not.


-----------------------------------------
Aren't sub's kind of a "cheap" solution to add something to your speakers that should have been there in the first place ? With only one, it's not even that ,it's just a mono bass source . Nothing like real stereo from 2 floor standers .

-cheers
------------------------------------------

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 151 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Hedoboy, naowro, BeBop, workarounder, robpar
8705 Registered Users
Top Posters (30 Days)
Helson 1
patm1198 1
Forum Stats
8,705 Registered Members
88 Forums
11,326 Topics
98,691 Posts

Most users ever online: 476 @ 12/28/22 08:54 PM